Today's Good Old American mass shooting brought to you by...

[tomdalton22]

Not the locals, but the service branch who DDed him.

so you think that the Air Force is responsible to follow him on facebook and report him if he posts a picture of him with a gun?

 

[tinselwolverine]

I don't blame them... who would rat on a homicidally crazy person with an assault rifle? I doubt very much the local PD would take an interest in doing jack shit about it.

I don't know that anybody who actually knew him thought he was homicidally crazy until the event.

I'm hearing reports that everyone who knew him in life is shocked and is saying they never would have thought it possible that he would snap this way.

I'm hearing that on the internet he was brash, and impolite and insulting and abusive with basically strangers who disagreed with him on shit...but...ya know...

EDIT: Maybe his wife and his in laws might not be that shocked. I haven't heard any of their reactions reported yet.

 

[turok]

so you think that the Air Force is responsible to follow him on facebook and report him if he posts a picture of him with a gun?

I posted no such thing, and have no idea how you got that from it. My reply was to michchamp about reporting Kelley to his former service branch, not the LEOs.

 

[tomdalton22]

I posted no such thing, and have no idea how you got that from it. My reply was to michchamp about reporting Kelley to the LEOs.

It sounded like you thought the service branch that gave him a dishonorable discharge was somehow responsible.

 

[tinselwolverine]

So apparently the system, which seemingly is supposed to have red flagged this guy as too dangerous to legally be able to obtain a gun, for his military conviction of a violent crime and his dishonorable discharge, failed.

Apparently this crazy wacko may have gone to the church to target his mother in law or ex-mother in law, with whom he had been having conflicts.

I'm hearing he described himself as a "militant atheist," which I guess is a more ideologically and spiritually pure and dogmatic kind of atheist than your typical day to day, garden variety non-believer.

 

[turok]

It sounded like you thought the service branch that gave him a dishonorable discharge was somehow responsible.

Kelley lost his right to own firearms as a result of his dishonorable discharge, not from committing a felony as a civilian. So it follows that the USAF or OPM is the agency to report him to.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Kelley lost his right to own firearms as a result of his dishonorable discharge, not from committing a felony as a civilian. So it follows that the USAF or OPM is the agency to report him to.

We don't know yet that they didn't. I'm hearing that it's simply possible that he just lied on his application and it slipped through the cracks.

In any event, like I pointed out a post or so ago...the system failed somewhere along the way.

 

[turok]

So apparently the system, which seemingly is supposed to have red flagged this guy as too dangerous to legally be able to obtain a gun, for his military conviction of a violent crime and his dishonorable discharge, failed.

Apparently this crazy wacko may have gone to the church to target his mother in law or ex-mother in law, with whom he had been having conflicts.

I'm hearing he described himself as a "militant atheist," which I guess is a more ideologically and spiritually pure and dogmatic kind of atheist than your typical day to day, garden variety non-believer.

The gunshop where he purchased the rifle, perhaps including the weapons and ammo found in his vehicle, may have at least some culpability in this tragedy. Its kinda pointless to take an applicant's word for it, why bother with registrations, if all that it takes to be approved, is to lie on them?

 

[tomdalton22]

Kelley lost his right to own firearms as a result of his dishonorable discharge, not from committing a felony as a civilian. So it follows that the USAF or OPM is the agency to report him to.

IF someone that had knowledge that he shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, and wanted to report him to an agency, the USAF would not be the agency. It would be the local authorities. The USAF is not in the business of monitoring civilian gun ownership.

 

[tinselwolverine]

The gunshop where he purchased the rifle, perhaps including the weapons and ammo found in his vehicle, may have at least some culpability in this tragedy. Its kinda pointless to take an applicant's word for it, why bother with registrations, if all that it takes to be approved, is to lie on them?

Yes, this might be the case.

 

[turok]

IF someone that had knowledge that he shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, and wanted to report him to an agency, the USAF would not be the agency. It would be the local authorities. The USAF is not in the business of monitoring civilian gun ownership.

Kelley was in military prison for a year, and although they might not be monitoring dishonorably discharged vets, they should be following up on any report of his owning a firearm. There are too many and it would be waay too labor-intensive and expensive to keep constant tabs on all of them.

 

[tinselwolverine]

IF someone that had knowledge that he shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, and wanted to report him to an agency, the USAF would not be the agency. It would be the local authorities. The USAF is not in the business of monitoring civilian gun ownership.

I think there's supposed some database or registry that authorities like the USAF or courts or various entities that obtain findings against someone that fit the criteria to be unable to legally purchase a gun to report that.

No, of course the USAF, if they're an entity that is responsible to make that kind of reporting, wouldn't be monitoring regarding civilian gun ownership beyond that.

 

[tomdalton22]

Kelley was in military prison for a year, and although they might not be monitoring dishonorably discharged vets, they should be following up on any report of his owning a firearm. There are too many and it would be waay too labor-intensive and expensive to keep constant tabs on all of them.

I guess they could follow up on someone reporting that he had a gun...but why would someone report it to them? You report it to someone that has the authority to take the gun away...the local authority...not the USAF. Once he is discharged they have no control over him. He is a civilian.

 

[turok]

Kelley was apparently court-marshalled while still in the service as a result of domestic violence against his first wife. She divorced him during some stage of his trial and imprisonment, or soon afterward, b/c he remarried in '14. Have to think that his second knew about his cache of weapons and ammo, and perhaps his first as well. So either/both are likely on the hotseat right now.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Kelley was apparently court-marshalled while still in the service as a result of domestic violence against his first wife. She divorced him during some stage of his trial and imprisonment, or soon afterward, b/c he remarried in '14. Have to think that his second knew about his cache of weapons and ammo, and perhaps his first as well. So either/both are likely on the hotseat right now.

His divorce and remarrying something I hadn't heard of...

So...he reportedly had a problem with his mother in law that might have had something to do with the shooting.

Was it the ex-mother in law or the mother of the woman he married in 2014?

 

[turok]

I guess they could follow up on someone reporting that he had a gun...but why would someone report it to them? You report it to someone that has the authority to take the gun away...the local authority...not the USAF. Once he is discharged they have no control over him. He is a civilian.

Got any citable proof of that?

I would call my local protect and servers, to get their take on this subject, but don't trust em enough to give me a straight answer. I'd ask my second cousin, who was chief of police in Detroit during the 60s, but he has been dead for a dozen years now.

 

[tomdalton22]

Got any citable proof of that?

I would call my local protect and servers, to get their take on this subject, but don't trust em enough to give me a straight answer. I'd ask mh second cousin, who was chief of police in Detroit during the 60s, but he has been dead for a dozen years now.

I was in the Air Force...once discharged they are done with you and you are a civilian. They have virtually no control over you after you are discharged.

 

[turok]

His divorce and remarrying something I hadn't heard of...

So...he reportedly had a problem with his mother in law that might have had something to do with the shooting.

Was it the ex-mother in law or the mother of the woman he married in 2014?

Maybe we will find out later when the investigation is further along or is completed.

 

[tomdalton22]

Maybe we will find out later when the investigation is further along or is completed.

Unfortunately, even big stories like this get brushed aside. I haven't heard much about the Vegas shooter in the past weeks. The media just moves along to the next story.

 

[turok]

I was in the Air Force...once discharged they are done with you and you are a civilian. They have virtually no control over you after you are discharged.

Kelley wasn't just discharged, he was also court marshalled, imprisoned, and dishonorably discharged. The miltary and courts ruled it illegal for DDed vets to possess or own firearms, not a civilian criminal court for being found guilty of committing a felony.