Trade Jennings

[dubbsco]

Did you think Khris Middleton would get a big payday? Wes Matthews?

The NBA is going way overboard with these contracts. Someone will take a flyer on him, a team that doesn't have a desirable starting PG and is looking to move on.

 

[tomdalton22]

Did you think Khris Middleton would get a big payday? Wes Matthews?

The NBA is going way overboard with these contracts. Someone will take a flyer on him, a team that doesn't have a desirable starting PG and is looking to move on.

Chris Middleton is a 6'8", 23 year old SG who shoot 45% from the field and 41% from 3 prior to getting his contract.

Wes Mathews is another SG that hits 44% of his shots and 40% from 3...but his contract is a bit of a head scratcher!

 

[dubbsco]

Still, it was a huge reach giving that guy a contract as he really hasn't done much of anything in the league.

Just the way this NBA is going, players that have no business getting massive contracts do. I can envision some team that wants to move on from their PG giving him a shot if they like the way he finishes with Detroit. The Pistons can't have both of these guys on the team. Jennings is going to want money, and I think he'll get it somewhere.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think we are all in agreement that he won't be a Piston next year. I think the debate should be weather the Pistons should keep him or try to move him for other assets. I don't think there will be much they could get in return, so him helping the team now and his salary coming off the books has more value.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

We need to realize that advanced stats are really sweeping the league right now. Guys that would be undervalued because of their PPG and draft status in the past are being valued for their actual contributions now. Middleton is a prime example of this. He's a great shooter and great defender who can also attack the basket when defenders close out too hard. He can't run an offense, nor can he create shots out of thin air like a scoring leader. He's not the centerpiece you want to build around, but he's EXACTLY what you want surrounding another star. He can take on the tougher defensive assignments and just kill defenses who try to fade off him.

Dub, you asked if Tom saw Middleton or Matthews getting the paydays they got. Whether he did or didn't, people that follow the numbers thought he was worth every penny. Middleton makes his team better in a big way. Matthews was always scheduled for huge money until his injury. It was the injury alone (not his play) that made the deal risky.

Jennings is the opposite of these cases. The advanced stats are highly unkind to Jennings. He's ranked at or near the bottom as a defender his entire career. Not just bad, but spectacularly bad. Combine bad defense with inefficient offense, and Jennings looks like a really bad player. His teams regularly played worse when he was playing. This is the reason Jennings isn't going to get a big contract. This is the reason no team is going to offer a good young player or pick for him. I'm not even talking about the most advanced and complicated statistical assessments of players either. This kind of thing is readily available to anyone with the internet. Teams have some serious player tracking data from every arena. Players like Jennings can't hide behind their PPG like they used to anymore.

 

[nsonnett14]

He is still only 25 years old , so if he plays some good ball before the deadline ( feb 18th)and looks healthy i can see a move . For some reason i just have a feeling he will be traded , as some team is gonna want him now . But i'm good either way really , cause ether way helps us . He stays , obviously he helps win games . He gets traded , then it means we got something of value in return .

 

[tomdalton22]

He is still only 25 years old , so if he plays some good ball before the deadline ( feb 18th)and looks healthy i can see a move . For some reason i just have a feeling he will be traded , as some team is gonna want him now . But i'm good either way really , cause ether way helps us . He stays , obviously he helps win games . He gets traded , then it means we got something of value in return .

not a big deal but he's 26

 

[lucke]

Are people forgetting that, as of now, he's only played 13 games coming back from blowing out his Achilles? Maybe if he never had the injury we could talk about trading him or him signing a max deal in the off season, but not when coming back from a major injury.

 

[nsonnett14]

Are people forgetting that, as of now, he's only played 13 games coming back from blowing out his Achilles? Maybe if he never had the injury we could talk about trading him or him signing a max deal in the off season, but not when coming back from a major injury.

The coming off an injury aspect doesnt mean anything , if he wasnt 100% fully healthy he wouldnt be playing . Its the physical conditioning and getting back to playing 5 on 5 up temp full court basketball . So , the trade deadline is less than a month away , not sure how many games we have until then without looking it up but its enough time to get into the shape needs to be in .

At least thats the way i look at the whole picture

 

[zoombabyzoom]

On Jackson: "Everything we hoped for, and then some"? I guess we might have very different hopes. When we sign a player (any player) to a maximum contract, I expect that player to play like an all-star at least. If this was last year, you could easily point at Reggie dropping nearly 10 assists a game and say, "that guy creates offense like a star!" What does 6.6 assists say (11th NBA, 9th PG). It says he's good, I guess, but certainly not a star. What does 19.5 ppg say (26th NBA, 10th PG)? Again, that he shoots a lot, but not that he scores like a star. What does 53.1% TS say when the league average is 53.4%? The one thing Reggie does similarly to other star PGs is defend - of course, most star PGs are drastically skewed towards offense and are poor defenders, so thats not really a compliment.

It's really hard to say Reggie isn't massively overpaid when Isaiah Thomas (a superior player) makes less than half of what Reggie does.

You want Jackson to be an All-Star level player. To be an All-Star one has to be one of the top 4-5 players at their position WITHIN their conference. You list stats that encompass the whole NBA not just the Eastern Conference.

PPG - 5th in ECF PGs
APG - 4th in ECF PGs
FG% - 4th in ECF PGs
FT% - 5th in ECF PGs
RPG - 6th in ECF PGs

Out of those top categories Reggie Jackson and John Wall are the only two who ranked in the Top 7 of all of them. And on top of that many experts are saying Jackson should be an All-Star and would undoubtedly be if it weren't for fans voting in undeserving players.

 

[tomdalton22]

You want Jackson to be an All-Star level player. To be an All-Star one has to be one of the top 4-5 players at their position WITHIN their conference. You list stats that encompass the whole NBA not just the Eastern Conference.

PPG - 5th in ECF PGs
APG - 4th in ECF PGs
FG% - 4th in ECF PGs
FT% - 5th in ECF PGs
RPG - 6th in ECF PGs

Out of those top categories Reggie Jackson and John Wall are the only two who ranked in the Top 7 of all of them. And on top of that many experts are saying Jackson should be an All-Star and would undoubtedly be if it weren't for fans voting in undeserving players.

they don't take 4-5 PGs...MAYBE 2 or 3

 

[zoombabyzoom]

they don't take 4-5 PGs...MAYBE 2 or 3

Cool. But last year 4 went, and the average for the past 4 years has been 3.

So more like 3-4, cuz facts.

And as already laid out Reggie Jackson has stats that place him right up there. Lowry and Wall are 1-2, but me and NBA experts say #3 is Jackson in most cases. And at worst he is #4.

I'll take that in a heartbeat. Plus, I am a Pistons fan so I am going to root for my guy instead of hating on him and trying to diminish his worth.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Something to keep in mind is that Reggie has the highest usage of any PG in the East (4th for all PGs). At the same time, he's 16th in the East in TS% (FG%, 3pt%, and FT% aren't very useful individually). His TS%, by the way, is the highest of his career, and is likely to regress a little bit. I could rate Reggie as high as the 4th best PG in the East (easily). And despite how this might sound sarcastic, I actually do appreciate the way you've picked out my claim very literally and torn it down statistically. When I said I expected him to play like an all star, what I meant what that I expected him to play like a foundational caliber player. He's good, even very good at times, but he wouldn't be the second best player on any current contender. He's not someone we could legitimately build around if Drummond was somehow gone (injury or otherwise). And while I realize it's an unfair comparison, I'm still burned by the fact that Isaiah Thomas makes less than half what Reggie does. Stan can run his system with just about any PG (they all look better in his system), so why spend so much on THIS one?

Understand I don't hate Reggie. He's the best PG we've had since Chauncey. What I hate, if anything, is the continued misappropriation of resources. Stan is a great coach, but what he has empowered as the defacto GM isn't great. The Smith debacle, the Monroe mishandling, the Reggie contract (even if you don't think it was a huge mistake, who were they bidding against?), even the cost of Baynes. Everything that has gone right for the Pistons so far is on the greatness, the development of Drummond (which Stan should take a ton of credit for). But it is really, REALLY hard to turn a team like this into a contender without smart, value-oriented signings.

Drummond is going to get maxed this summer. Even with the cap going up, he and Reggie are going to take up a huge chunk. And based on previous actions, it's very hard to predict Stan being smart with what cap is left.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Something to keep in mind is that Reggie has the highest usage of any PG in the East (4th for all PGs). At the same time, he's 16th in the East in TS% (FG%, 3pt%, and FT% aren't very useful individually). His TS%, by the way, is the highest of his career, and is likely to regress a little bit. I could rate Reggie as high as the 4th best PG in the East (easily). And despite how this might sound sarcastic, I actually do appreciate the way you've picked out my claim very literally and torn it down statistically. When I said I expected him to play like an all star, what I meant what that I expected him to play like a foundational caliber player. He's good, even very good at times, but he wouldn't be the second best player on any current contender. He's not someone we could legitimately build around if Drummond was somehow gone (injury or otherwise). And while I realize it's an unfair comparison, I'm still burned by the fact that Isaiah Thomas makes less than half what Reggie does. Stan can run his system with just about any PG (they all look better in his system), so why spend so much on THIS one?

Understand I don't hate Reggie. He's the best PG we've had since Chauncey. What I hate, if anything, is the continued misappropriation of resources. Stan is a great coach, but what he has empowered as the defacto GM isn't great. The Smith debacle, the Monroe mishandling, the Reggie contract (even if you don't think it was a huge mistake, who were they bidding against?), even the cost of Baynes. Everything that has gone right for the Pistons so far is on the greatness, the development of Drummond (which Stan should take a ton of credit for). But it is really, REALLY hard to turn a team like this into a contender without smart, value-oriented signings.

Drummond is going to get maxed this summer. Even with the cap going up, he and Reggie are going to take up a huge chunk. And based on previous actions, it's very hard to predict Stan being smart with what cap is left.

We had to overpay to keep him. Even OKC, offered him 12 million a season,and we are paying him like 14 million. Doesn't really sound like much when your team is Detroit. And there will always be a player that's a better deal. So if you focus on that the perspective will always be negative.

And for our Cap Situation. Ersan and his 8.5 million is a team option next season and 2.5 will come off thanks to Joel Anthony's team option that won't be picked up. Brandon Jennings is a FA (another 8.5 million), Tolliver is a FA and another 3 million off. With the Cap expected to raise again to 73-75 million. If we don't exercise any team options and give AD a max deal (which will start out for his years of service around 16.5 million) we will have about 14 million in cap space. So in essence we could throw away Bullock to some team to lose his salary and sign another Max player if we want to. After next year, we lose Josh Smith' contract as well

 

[tomdalton22]

Cool. But last year 4 went, and the average for the past 4 years has been 3.

So more like 3-4, cuz facts.

And as already laid out Reggie Jackson has stats that place him right up there. Lowry and Wall are 1-2, but me and NBA experts say #3 is Jackson in most cases. And at worst he is #4.

I'll take that in a heartbeat. Plus, I am a Pistons fan so I am going to root for my guy instead of hating on him and trying to diminish his worth.

Don't get me wrong...he is playing like the 4th of 5th best PG in the east this year. Irving being the starter is kind of a joke but not as bad as Kobe. At least everyone knows that Irving is the best PG in the east but doesn't have the stats this year because of his missed games due to his injury

 

[tomdalton22]

No mention of Jennings

"The Jazz are “poking around” the market for a point guard, several league sources tell Zach Lowe of ESPN.com. It’s not entirely clear if such efforts are related to the team’s reported 10-day deal with Erick Green, though it would seem given the timing of that agreement, so soon after Raul Neto suffered a concussion Monday, that the team had already been looking. The Heat reportedly rebuffed Utah when it tried to engage them in Mario Chalmers trade talks over the offseason, but the Jazz’s interest in Chalmers was minimal, according to Lowe. The ESPN scribe speculates about other options, including Jrue Holiday, whose leg issues leave teams “petrified” and whom the Pelicans are reluctant to deal, anyway, Lowe reports. Lowe also believes Jeff Teague would be a fit for Utah, but reports that the Hawks have “major trust issues” with backup Dennis Schr?der and are focused on contending. In any case, the Jazz appear reluctant to pilfer from their store of future picks, which includes the Warriors unprotected 2017 first-rounder as the relative cost of rookie scale contracts becomes cheaper amid the rapid salary cap escalation, Lowe writes."

 

[nsonnett14]

Think these last few games have solidified the reasons why Jackson is our man at PG . Im even more in favor now of trading Jennings , but now ts not appearing me could get a whole lot . Isnt his contract up at the end of the year ? I see no reason as to why we would sign him , so now im on board to just get whatever we can for him .

 

[Mitchrapp]

Don't get me wrong...he is playing like the 4th of 5th best PG in the east this year. Irving being the starter is kind of a joke but not as bad as Kobe. At least everyone knows that Irving is the best PG in the east but doesn't have the stats this year because of his missed games due to his injury

I don't consider Kobe as a joke since it's his last season of a HOF career. People are going to want to vote for him, can't blame them for that.

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't consider Kobe as a joke since it's his last season of a HOF career. People are going to want to vote for him, can't blame them for that.

I meant that it's a joke because he's a terrible basketball player that is taking the place of someone that's more deserving. The fans can vote for whomever they want...it doesn't mean they're right.

 

[dubbsco]

Jackson's been ice cold in that late game three it seems.

That's a part of his game that hasn't been getting much pub. He's taken such a huge jump from last year in 3-point percentage. Dude was an absolute liability beyond the arc, and now he can hit it with decent regularity.