Trump dodged taxes while inheriting the equivalent of $413 M in today's dollars

[Gulo Blue]

I mentioned before, I think it's more likely Trump has broken laws with this kind of thing than Russian collusion. The failing New York Times just published two stories (1 long form, and a separate 11 takeaways)

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-wealth-fred-trump.html

If every single word of this turned out to be 100% undeniably true, my gut says it's still just scratching the surface.

 

[sggatecl]

In before "who cares?" and "they all do it."

 

[turok]

But-but-but....Crooked Hillary!!

 

[Spartanmack]

In before "who cares?" and "they all do it."

But-but-but....Crooked Hillary!!

but-but-but...nobody has defended Trump against the actual shady things he's done.

I haven't read the piece, nor do I intend to because as I've said many times, I disliked Trump long before he ever ran for President and I've always thought he was slimy both personally and professionally. I'd still take him over Hillary though, any day because Hillary is not only slimier, she's is evil.

I would suggest however that as you read it, if you choose to, read it with a bit of skepticism given the source, try to be fair and keep in mind there is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. The former is illegal, the latter is the smart thing to do.

 

[Gulo Blue]

but-but-but...nobody has defended Trump against the actual shady things he's done.

I haven't read the piece, nor do I intend to because as I've said many times, I disliked Trump long before he ever ran for President and I've always thought he was slimy both personally and professionally. I'd still take him over Hillary though, any day because Hillary is not only slimier, she's is evil.

I would suggest however that as you read it, if you choose to, read it with a bit of skepticism given the source, try to be fair and keep in mind there is a difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. The former is illegal, the latter is the smart thing to do.

It's not just about about the tax avoidance and (I suspect) evasion, there's also the lie about him being self-made. So many people thinks he's a great businessman, but I'd like to see a timeline of these gifts and how much money he'd have if he'd just put them in index funds as he received them. I have so little belief in his merit, I suspect he's actually achieved little to nothing for all his shenanigans.

 

[Michchamp]

if only the NYT et al published this stuff during the course of 2016.

all this is easy to find, as well as most of Trump's shady, and outright illegal conduct during the 80's, which whole books have been written.

The fact that all this was written & published well before 2016, and did not automatically disqualify Trump as a candidate in voters' minds makes me deeply ashamed to be human.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It's not just about about the tax avoidance and (I suspect) evasion, there's also the lie about him being self-made. So many people thinks he's a great businessman, but I'd like to see a timeline of these gifts and how much money he'd have if he'd just put them in index funds as he received them. I have so little belief in his merit, I suspect he's actually achieved little to nothing for all his shenanigans.

Everybody knows this about Donald Trump.

@ :25

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pmC8AAPtNoE

None of his supports believed he was self-made, or very few anyway.

They supported him because they liked that he was an asshole.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Everybody knows this about Donald Trump.

None of his supports believed he was self-made, or very few anyway.

They supported him because they liked that he was an asshole.

A lot of people should know it, but they still parrot his lies and talk about his ability to make a deal being great for our economy. Like he isn't still selling us all a load of BS and claiming credit for things he's not responsible for. It's what he's done his entire career, everybody knows it, and yet you still see people arguing that this time it's different.

 

[Gulo Blue]

FYI, the $200M Trump was claiming as his wealth in 1976, that would be worth around $5.8 billion now if it was pegged to the DJIA.

 

[Gulo Blue]

if only the NYT et al published this stuff during the course of 2016.

all this is easy to find, as well as most of Trump's shady, and outright illegal conduct during the 80's, which whole books have been written.

The fact that all this was written & published well before 2016, and did not automatically disqualify Trump as a candidate in voters' minds makes me deeply ashamed to be human.

Some of this was public, some of this is new, including 200+ tax returns from Fred Trump's records.

The findings are based on interviews with Fred Trump?s former employees and advisers and more than 100,000 pages of documents describing the inner workings and immense profitability of his empire. They include documents culled from public sources ? mortgages and deeds, probate records, financial disclosure reports, regulatory records and civil court files. The investigation also draws on tens of thousands of pages of confidential records ? bank statements, financial audits, accounting ledgers, cash disbursement reports, invoices and canceled checks. Most notably, the documents include more than 200 tax returns from Fred Trump, his companies and various Trump partnerships and trusts.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's not just about about the tax avoidance and (I suspect) evasion, there's also the lie about him being self-made. So many people thinks he's a great businessman, but I'd like to see a timeline of these gifts and how much money he'd have if he'd just put them in index funds as he received them. I have so little belief in his merit, I suspect he's actually achieved little to nothing for all his shenanigans.

why would you compare his performance to an index fund? He's not managing a portfolio of liquid assets let alone an equity portfolio with a risk profile similar to any of the S&P, Russell or other indices.

 

[Spartanmack]

A lot of people should know it, but they still parrot his lies and talk about his ability to make a deal being great for our economy. Like he isn't still selling us all a load of BS and claiming credit for things he's not responsible for. It's what he's done his entire career, everybody knows it, and yet you still see people arguing that this time it's different.

you don't think he can make deals? whether everything was above board or not (not much in the real estate business, particularly in town heavily influenced by corrupt unions), and regardless of whether or not every deal was profitable, it's not easy to make those kinds of deals happen. It takes money, negotiating skills, connections and balls. Everyone knows he grew up rich and was helped by his dad and his dad's money. Disproving the claim that he was "self-made" doesn't mean the guy can't get things done.

 

[Gulo Blue]

why would you compare his performance to an index fund? He's not managing a portfolio of liquid assets let alone an equity portfolio with a risk profile similar to any of the S&P, Russell or other indices.

Because to me, the index funds represent an average for big business. If your claim to fame is being great at making money and big business deals, you should be better than average.

 

[Spartanmack]

FYI, the $200M Trump was claiming as his wealth in 1976, that would be worth around $5.8 billion now if it was pegged to the DJIA.

again, what would it look like if it was invested in real estate or projects with a similar risk profile? or a diversified portfolio of assets? I don't think any reasonable financial professional would advocate putting $200mm into an index of 30 equal weighted stocks.

 

[TheVictors]

Trump's entire life is a sham. All of it. His grandpa was a pimp who ran whores and his dad a shady real estate guy. Don was given a shitload of money and mismanaged the hell out of it and is an utter failure from casinos to steak knives. The way in which he gets gullible 'blue collar' shlubs to buy into the idea that he's one of them or to be admired for his success, speaks to the sheer stupidity of the American voter. America really isn't that great - not in terms of Global rankings of poverty, education or health. Don Trump is a carnival barker, a racist, a pedophile and liar. He lies every time the cameras are on him and he has no friends. I would pity him a bit, but I have no pity for a sociopath who abuses the vulnerable and who brags and boasts about falsehoods and lies. Fuck him and his family. He's the greatest embarassment in the history of American politics.

 

[Spartanmack]

Because to me, the index funds represent an average for big business. If your claim to fame is being great at making money and big business deals, you should be better than average.

it's not a valid comparison. Investing in the DOW is completely different from real estate, which was the primary focus of his business until the last decade or so. And even if it wasn't, you're comparing one company to an index of 30. When Sears Robuck goes bust, the Dow takes a bit of a hit but it replaces Sears with a much stronger company. When a single business operator goes bust, he/she is 100% of the risk, not 1/30th - they have to rebuild from zero.

The Dow isn't a good benchmark for equity portfolio managers and the indices that are better aren't good benchmarks for an real estate entrepreneur and they're not much better for a single conglomerate, which Trump really isn't - he's more of a branding company.

 

[Spartanmack]

Trump's entire life is a sham. All of it. His grandpa was a pimp who ran whores and his dad a shady real estate guy. Don was given a shitload of money and mismanaged the hell out of it and is an utter failure from casinos to steak knives. The way in which he gets gullible 'blue collar' shlubs to buy into the idea that he's one of them or to be admired for his success, speaks to the sheer stupidity of the American voter. America really isn't that great - not in terms of Global rankings of poverty, education or health. Don Trump is a carnival barker, a racist, a pedophile and liar. He lies every time the cameras are on him and he has no friends. I would pity him a bit, but I have no pity for a sociopath who abuses the vulnerable and who brags and boasts about falsehoods and lies. Fuck him and his family. He's the greatest embarassment in the history of American politics.

America may be imperfect but it is awesome by comparison to virtually everywhere. Period. and global rankings of poverty are a joke. if anyone thinks they're worse off being poor in America than most of the rest of the world, they're simply out of their mind and buying into very poorly done studies that misrepresent differences in poverty across countries.

 

[Gulo Blue]

you don't think he can make deals? whether everything was above board or not (not much in the real estate business, particularly in town heavily influenced by corrupt unions), and regardless of whether or not every deal was profitable, it's not easy to make those kinds of deals happen. It takes money, negotiating skills, connections and balls. Everyone knows he grew up rich and was helped by his dad and his dad's money. Disproving the claim that he was "self-made" doesn't mean the guy can't get things done.

I want to challenge you to take a break from including phrases like "you think..." or "you don't think..." in your posts. If it's a question, the answer is almost always no. If it's a statement, it's almost always wrong.



Of course I think he can make deals. They're bad deals. He makes money through them, not by conducting the kind of business that grows the economy, but by screwing people with false promises and terms he'll break because they can't afford to to fight him in court. You wouldn't think you could stay in business making deals like that, but his great talent is finding ways to make people believe they can make money doing business with him. Now, he's not fooling other nations with his deal making. He has to fool us; tweak a deal and act like he completely changed it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

again, what would it look like if it was invested in real estate or projects with a similar risk profile? or a diversified portfolio of assets? I don't think any reasonable financial professional would advocate putting $200mm into an index of 30 equal weighted stocks.

Well, seems like I've read that most financial professionals can't keep up with indexes either, so I'm a bit skeptical that that's the right crowd to get your perspective from anyway. We're talking about the reason Trump is supposed to be so great he should lead our nation, why shouldn't he greatly exceed the DJIA?

 

[TheVictors]

Well, seems like I've read that most financial professionals can't keep up with indexes either, so I'm a bit skeptical that that's the right crowd to get your perspective from anyway. We're talking about the reason Trump is supposed to be so great he should lead our nation, why shouldn't he greatly exceed the DJIA?

The DJIA is a bad benchmark - its only 30 stocks. That said, the average large cap manager fails to beat the S&P 500 around 90% of the time, let alone consistently. For someone to toss money into SPY and simply get the Beta trade is a basic comparison and in some years - like 2013 - you'd look like an investment genius, the monkey with the dart hitting the bull's eye.


More importantly is the base lie Trump has been telling about how he took a "loan" of $1M and repaid with interest and then turned that small inheritance into hundreds of billions. That's just a blatant lie.






I would suggest taking a look at investments options at www.SectorSPDRs.com