U.S. intelligence agencies say Iran, Russia have tried to interfere in 2020 election

[Spartanmack]

I stopped reading after "I stopped reading". Do I win anything?

you want a reward for lying? try running for President.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I stopped reading after "I stopped reading". Do I win anything?

I?m pretty sure I didn?t even start reading it.

I don?t even know what you guys are talking about.

What are you guys talking about?

 

[Gulo Blue]

you want a reward for lying? try running for President.

You guessed wrong. I actually didn't read whatever you wrote.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I?m pretty sure I didn?t even start reading it.

I don?t even know what you guys are talking about.

What are you guys talking about?

OK. You win.

 

[tinselwolverine]

OK. You win.

Does this mean I get to be president?

I really don?t want the job.

Maybe that makes me smarter than Donald Trump.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Does this mean I get to be president?

I really don?t want the job.

Maybe that makes me smarter than Donald Trump.

A reluctant president? I'll vote for that!

 

[tinselwolverine]

The ACA is doing exactly what it was designed to do - make private insurance worse, not better. Virtually all the "newly insured" under Obamacare are covered by the massive expansion of medicaid - there was no need to touch private insurance in the act. But they made it worse for a reason. Now or soon, they will be able to tell low information lemmings who vote for them that they tried everything but the free market just doesn't work for health insurance (even though health insurance is nowhere near a free market) so the only solution is single payer or government provided health care.

I read somewhere that at least half of the people who became covered under Medicaid would have been eligible anyway before the ACA - they just didn?t know it.

I?ve said it 100 times - the ACA fixed a few things that needed to be fixed, and ?fixed? a whole lot of shit that wasn?t broke.

And screw the Republicans for not doing anything during the six years Bush was president and they controlled the legislative branch also, too.

A pox on both of them.

Throw out the ACA, and make everyone eligible for Medicaid if they don?t have anything better at a given time.

If people are ?too rich? to have been eligible for Medicaid under the old qualifications, make those people pay a premium.

That?s how it works in social democracies with ?utopian universal healthcare,? where people opt for private insurance if they can get it, and, as I?ve also said 100 times - we pretty much already are.

 

[Michchamp]

I stopped reading after "I stopped reading". Do I win anything?

When you click the link and read about how Max Baucus and his aides FROM THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY ... DRAFTED THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE OF THE ACA ... AND THEN all went to work in the health insurance industry/lobby for more money, and that undermines your entire point about how Obama intended to "make private insurance worse," then yeah, you pretty much have to stop reading and start name calling, like he does.

Or start screaming "wrong wrong wrong" and hope you don't get asked to prove why it's wrong, forcing you to go google until you find an article from Daily Wire or the Heritage Foundation that says it's wrong (again without explaining why).

The ACA made private insurance worse for us, but more lucrative for the insurers themselves... tough to argue that last part was an accidental result of Obama's bad policy making. It was the whole point, and Obama, being owned by the lobbyists, signed it after the industry wrote the bill.

This is how things work in a shithole country

 

[tinselwolverine]

A reluctant president? I'll vote for that!

Washington was.

I was once the reluctant president of my HOA - I?ve talked about that a few times over the years.

 

[Michchamp]

I stopped reading after "I stopped reading". Do I win anything?

I do think you're on to something here... those words "I stopped reading after..." are where someone should actually stop reading.

 

[tinselwolverine]

When you click the link and read about how Max Baucus and his aides FROM THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY ... DRAFTED THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE OF THE ACA ... AND THEN all went to work in the health insurance industry/lobby for more money, and that undermines your entire point about how Obama intended to "make private insurance worse," then yeah, you pretty much have to stop reading and start name calling, like he does.

Or start screaming "wrong wrong wrong" and hope you don't get asked to prove why it's wrong, forcing you to go google until you find an article from Daily Wire or the Heritage Foundation that says it's wrong (again without explaining why).

The ACA made private insurance worse for us, but more lucrative for the insurers themselves... tough to argue that last part was an accidental result of Obama's bad policy making. It was the whole point, and Obama, being owned by the lobbyists, signed it after the industry wrote the bill.

This is how things work in a shithole country

So what?s the argument?

Let?s pitch it, and do what I suggested in # 47.

 

[Michchamp]

So what?s the argument?

Let?s pitch it, and do what I suggested in # 47.

Medicare for all. I agree.

cut out the middleman. always the best (and economically efficient) answer.

in fact, don't just cut him out: lock him in a building, nail the exits shut, and set it on fire

 

[Gulo Blue]

Washington was.

I was once the reluctant president of my HOA - I?ve talked about that a few times over the years.

I think either the current or previous Pope was reluctant too.

 

[byco42]

Washington was.

I was once the reluctant president of my HOA - I’ve talked about that a few times over the years.

Franklin Pierce was a reluctant president, too. He was a surprise nominee. "He publicly declared that such a nomination would be 'utterly repugnant to my tastes and wishes'"...

But he was nominated on the 49th ballot as the Democratic candidate.

"When word reached New Hampshire of the result, Pierce found it difficult to believe, and his wife fainted. Their son Benjamin wrote to his mother hoping that Franklin's candidacy would not be successful, as he knew she would not like to live in Washington."

Poor "Benny", 11 years of age, was horribly mangled and died in a train derailment with the family on the way to Washington, and Franklin "was not able to hide the gruesome sight from his wife."

Source: Wiki.

 

[Spartanmack]

You guessed wrong. I actually didn't read whatever you wrote.

that wasn't a guess and it wasn't wrong.

 

[Spartanmack]

What about the fact that the healthcare industry lobby drafted it, and it was initially a more or less right wing plan to ensure private insurers kept their place at the trough when Romney implemented almost the same thing (with a mandate and all) in Massachusetts?

are you just going to ignore those (as usual) so you can shoehorn this into your "government - only when democrats in charge = bad" worldview?

yes, you are.

Lost in the screaming about the ACA is the fact that Obama also allowed (which NEITHER party will undo) massive consolidation in the health insurance industry, and drawn by the stench of corruption, private equity forced their way to the trough as well, and is responsible for the "surprise billing" people get now.

Just fucking remove health insurers from the equation, and all these problems go away. A bunch of huge leeches feeding off something people have no control over: getting hurt or getting sick.

When you click the link and read about how Max Baucus and his aides FROM THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY ... DRAFTED THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE OF THE ACA ... AND THEN all went to work in the health insurance industry/lobby for more money, and that undermines your entire point about how Obama intended to "make private insurance worse," then yeah, you pretty much have to stop reading and start name calling, like he does.

Or start screaming "wrong wrong wrong" and hope you don't get asked to prove why it's wrong, forcing you to go google until you find an article from Daily Wire or the Heritage Foundation that says it's wrong (again without explaining why).

The ACA made private insurance worse for us, but more lucrative for the insurers themselves... tough to argue that last part was an accidental result of Obama's bad policy making. It was the whole point, and Obama, being owned by the lobbyists, signed it after the industry wrote the bill.

This is how things work in a shithole country

sigh, here we go again. this happens so often, I'm surprised even you expect your posts to be taken seriously. I'm not ignoring facts, I was ignoring your completely incorrect statements. You're constantly either intentionally misrepresenting articles you post hoping no one will read them or you haven't read them yourself and are just making shit up hoping no one will read them. But, to put you in your place again, I'll indulge yet another one of your tantrums.

First, I haven't called anyone any names in this thread.

Second, Max Baucus is a Democrat, the bill was passed on a party line vote and signed into law by a Democrat President. The fact that Max Baucus engaged in corrupt crony corporatism, having his friends in the pharmaceutical industry write the bill or that Romney passed something similar in uber leftist Massachusetts, does not make it "essentially a right wing plan." Democrats have been in bed with corporations for decades, just like establishment Republicans. This bill is 100% leftist policy and it's utterly absurd to say otherwise.

Third, it's well documented and widely reported that the pharmaceutical industry, not the health insurance industry was by far the biggest lobbying influence in drafting the ACA. The piece you posted even says so:

The pharmaceutical giant that just hired Fowler actively supported the passage of Obamacare through its membership in the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) lobby. Indeed, PhRMA was one of the most aggressive supporters - and most lavish beneficiaries - of the health care bill drafted by Fowler. Mother Jones' James Ridgeway proclaimed "Big Pharma" the "big winner" in the health care bill.

Baucus and Fowler both went on to lobby for big pharma, not health insurance companies. Again, from the piece you linked:

"Elizabeth Fowler is leaving the White House for a senior-level position leading 'global health policy' at Johnson & Johnson's government affairs and policy group...And now, Fowler will receive ample rewards from that same industry as she peddles her influence in government and exploits her experience with its inner workings to work on that industry's behalf, all of which has been made perfectly legal by the same insular, Versailles-like Washington culture that so lavishly benefits from all of this."

FYI, Johnson & Johnson IS NOT a health insurance provider. Now, you may believe all for-profit entities have the same concerns and motives, leading you to mistakenly think what's good for big pharma must be good for big insurance, therefore Spartanmack has been owned. But you're wrong and it would be tough to be more wrong. Anyone with any understanding how health care works in America, knows big pharma and big insurance are not the same. You can see this in who benefited most from the ACA - big pharma (again I refer you to the first quote above, taken directly from the article you posted), and which industry got most screwed - health insurance. The bet for big pharma is that their friends in government will take care of them when the government takes over healthcare and the insurance companies, providers and device manufacturers will be the ones that get screwed.

The ACA did, in fact make private insurance worse for us AND the insurance companies. That's why so many states saw so many insurance companies pull out of the exchanges and out of doing business entirely in several states in the first couple years of the law - and they haven't gone back. They didn't leave entire states in droves because the ACA was a huge boon to their profits.

So, you're wrong again and I didn't need an article from the Daily Wire or the Heritage Foundation - all I had to do was read the article you linked (I didn't really need to read it as I already knew big pharma wrote the ACA, but I did because I always find it funny how often I disprove your lies with your own links - it happens so often, I've lost count).

Now as usual you're either going to disappear and pretend this never happened, or engage in some name calling, hand waiving, moving the goal posts or try to argue that Baucus is basically a Republican and that big pharma is basically the same thing as big health insurers and then accuse me of doing exactly what you do so you can tell yourself you won the internets "again."

 

[Spartanmack]

Medicare for all. I agree.

cut out the middleman. always the best (and economically efficient) answer.

in fact, don't just cut him out: lock him in a building, nail the exits shut, and set it on fire

Now you're going all "Keith Olberman" on us. Medicare for all is not cutting out the middleman - it's making government the middle man. You'll still need companies to make products, provide services, develop drugs, new devices, etc. The idea that the corruption you point out and post articles about will suddenly go away when the corrupt government gets more control over the purse is completely insane.

 

[Gulo Blue]

that wasn't a guess and it wasn't wrong.

You are a troll. Just throwing bullshit against the wall.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Franklin Pierce was a reluctant president, too. He was a surprise nominee. "He publicly declared that such a nomination would be 'utterly repugnant to my tastes and wishes'"...

But he was nominated on the 49th ballot as the Democratic candidate.

"When word reached New Hampshire of the result, Pierce found it difficult to believe, and his wife fainted. Their son Benjamin wrote to his mother hoping that Franklin's candidacy would not be successful, as he knew she would not like to live in Washington."

Poor "Benny", 11 years of age, was horribly mangled and died in a train derailment with the family on the way to Washington, and Franklin "was not able to hide the gruesome sight from his wife."

Source: Wiki.

I hadn't heard of this. Tragic.

 

[byco42]

I hadn't heard of this. Tragic.

Pierce was plunged into a Kobashi Maru scenario in his single term, dealing with the blowback of the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska act, expansionism, and in trying to be even-handed in federal appointments. He left office vilified by all relevant factions of the time.