Ukraine Riots

[Michchamp]

You could call it semantics, but you'd have to argue that none of those university-employed researchers qualified as cerebral. That they were wrong is irrelevant. I'd put that homeopathy movement of the 1800's and some of the past research into the paranormal in the same boat. Sure they were wrong, but they were living the life of the mind. Scientists are wrong sometimes.

...

but as we saw in the other thread, while some "scientists" believed such crap, it was not widely accepted in the scientific community at the time. UM's faculty successfully opposed a homeopathy post at the time. Just because some charlatan comes along selling some crap while sounding "scienc-y" doesn't make him cerebral.

...

Do you use the L or other mass transit to get to work? (but then you aren't whining about the traffic - so it may not really matter in the discussion)

...

It's complicated. I have a long commute. I typically take the EL a short distance, and then have an express bus trip the rest of the way. I usually only drive once or twice a week. Taking mass transit actually adds a bit of time to the commute length, as well as being miserable on really cold days, but I save money on gas & wear and tear on the car, and don't contribute excess CO2 to the atmosphere. When traffic is really bad though, for example when there are Cubs games in the city and the freeways are choked, mass transit is quicker.

my wife asked me why I don't just drive everyday, but I try to practice what I preach. Plus with the kid at home, the only time I can really read is on the bus/train.

even if you don't plan to ever ride a train or bus in your life, promoting their use is smart policy for you... less traffic on the road, right? I know why the oil/auto industries oppose mass transit, but I'm not sure why anyone outside of either group does.

I know in the Detroit suburbs, there were always the scare tactics about the "wrong" people coming into your community on the train, and crime and so forth... but while those incidents always make the news, they are pretty rare given the number of commuter miles ridden.

plus, as some posters here know, mass transit is great if you like to drink heavily, but don't want to risk a DUI. the Metra system in Chicago sets aside a separate train car for sloppy beer-drunk Cubs fans from the suburbs for this very reason.

 

[Gulo Blue]

We should all work from home until AI replaces us.

 

[KAWDUP]

even if you don't plan to ever ride a train or bus in your life, promoting their use is smart policy for you... less traffic on the road, right? I know why the oil/auto industries oppose mass transit, but I'm not sure why anyone outside of either group does.

yes - anything that causes less traffic - I am in favor of. :*)

I know in the Detroit suburbs, there were always the scare tactics about the "wrong" people coming into your community on the train, and crime and so forth... but while those incidents always make the news, they are pretty rare given the number of commuter miles ridden.

The same scare tactics are used here. The original plan had the train coming all the way up near my current house, but the county that my town is in blocked it - and that was before I ever arrived.

Mass transit will probably get the last laugh, though, because there are proposals for moving the pro baseball stadium to the Southern end of Cobb county near the perimeter of Atlanta. If this occurs, which appears likely, mass transit will be forced onto the county, otherwise, an already gnarly traffic problem would get 3-4 times worse.

The opposition from the rich folks that live in Cobb county will dry up pretty quickly when faced with worse traffic. Of this I am sure. Rush hour Atlanta traffic really is that bad. :*)

 

[tinselwolverine]

plus, as some posters here know, mass transit is great if you like to drink heavily, but don't want to risk a DUI. the Metra system in Chicago sets aside a separate train car for sloppy beer-drunk Cubs fans from the suburbs for this very reason.

Can a person ride in that car even during the off season or when there's not a Cubs home game that day?

 

[tinselwolverine]

Mass transit will probably get the last laugh, though, because there are proposals for moving the pro baseball stadium to the Southern end of Cobb county near the perimeter of Atlanta.

That sounds like it's going to be pretty hard, and also kind of stupid.

Why don't they just build a new one out there?

 

[Michchamp]

Can a person ride in that car even during the off season or when there's not a Cubs home game that day?

it's not technically a different train car; on Cubs home game days they just make all Cubs fans get in the front car.

I don't know exactly how it works, but I've seen it happen. all normal people are lined up along the length of the platform, but then in the front, there's a mob of drunk retards in Cubs jerseys waiting for the front car.

At first I didn't understand what was going on, but the Metra is a separate rail system that goes from downtown Chicago out to the surrounding suburbs. The passengers are usually white collar suburbanites going to-from the city, and unlike the EL, the Metra has conductors to punch tickets, boot panhandlers and bums... and keep the peace between drunk Cubs fans and more reserved passengers. You can also drink alcohol on the Metra, as long as you keep to yourself and don't do nothing stupid. The Metra was also featured in that really stupid movie "Source Code." Goddamn, that was a stupid movie...

knowing how drunks behave - esp. drunk Cubs fans - I was surprised they obeyed the rule and stuck to their designated train car. But since most of them have done this before, they know if they cause a problem, they'll get booted and either have to wait for the next train and pay a new fare, or (worst case) deal with an arrest and a disorderly conduct charge if they don't listen to the conductor.

 

[Gulo Blue]

We should update our subways. Get your Octopus Card.

 

[Michchamp]

mass transit in Asian countries - especially Japan - is insane. Did you see that video on YouTube of a typical Japanese commute... where there are transit cops taking these long beams and using them to pack riders into each train car like sardines?

I've been on some crowded trains here, but nothing like that.

how great would this be? I'd love it if game days in Ann Arbor were just an hour or two train ride from Chicago. freakin' Republicans...

 

[tinselwolverine]

Well the Republicans oppose it because as you can see the green line makes it much easier for illegal aliens to get into the country.

EDIT: actually all three of the north south lines in the West go into Mexico.

 

[Gulo Blue]

mass transit in Asian countries - especially Japan - is insane. Did you see that video on YouTube of a typical Japanese commute... where there are transit cops taking these long beams and using them to pack riders into each train car like sardines?

I've been on some crowded trains here, but nothing like that.

how great would this be? I'd love it if game days in Ann Arbor were just an hour or two train ride from Chicago. freakin' Republicans...

"High speed"

Most of it is expected to run in the 90-110 mph range. Yea. We had that ability in 1934.

 

[Michchamp]

"High speed"

Most of it is expected to run in the 90-110 mph range. Yea. We had that ability in 1934.

well, aside from the Acela line we don't have it anymore, and it would be great to have it again.

 

[Michchamp]

Well the Republicans oppose it because as you can see the green line makes it much easier for illegal aliens to get into the country.

EDIT: actually all three of the north south lines in the West go into Mexico.

I heard they also oppose it because of fears the terrorists could hijack trains and crash them into buildings.

 

[Thumb]

Do those trains ever get derailed? 'cause this thread sure has.

 

[Michchamp]

Do those trains ever get derailed? 'cause this thread sure has.

we're waiting for more actual news from Ukraine.

I found this article.

apparently Ukraine's military is even more of a disaster than I had thought, with something like only 6,000 combat-ready infantry. this makes things complicated; if there was already a decent-sized army, they could at least halt any initial Russian invasion while the reserves mobilized. Now they have to build an army from scratch.

and of course, doing that is a very public thing, that Russia can monitor; and the build up itself could be painted as "aggression" by Russia.

Ukraine's PM is calling on the US and UK to respond to Russia with force according to the '94 agreement whereby Ukr gave up its nukes in exchange for territorial guarantees:

"What does the current military aggression of the Russian Federation on Ukrainian territory mean?" he said.

"It means that a country which voluntarily gave up nuclear weapons, rejected nuclear status and received guarantees from the world's leading countries is left defenseless and alone in the face of a nuclear state that is armed to the teeth.

"I say this to our Western partners: if you do not provide guarantees, which were signed in the Budapest Memorandum, then explain how you will persuade Iran or North Korea to give up their status as nuclear states."
​

well...

 

[Michchamp]

this article also details the number of Russian operations that have been conducted in Crimea, including seizing a Ukrainian naval base, sinking a ship in a harbor entrance to block a Ukrainian naval vessel in port, roughing up journalists, and "disappearing" a number of Ukrainian civilians and activists opposed to the Crimean secession. slowly but surely, the Russians are consolidating their grip on the peninsula.

 

[food4thought]

we're waiting for more actual news from Ukraine.

I found this article.

apparently Ukraine's military is even more of a disaster than I had thought, with something like only 6,000 combat-ready infantry. this makes things complicated; if there was already a decent-sized army, they could at least halt any initial Russian invasion while the reserves mobilized. Now they have to build an army from scratch.

and of course, doing that is a very public thing, that Russia can monitor; and the build up itself could be painted as "aggression" by Russia.

Ukraine's PM is calling on the US and UK to respond to Russia with force according to the '94 agreement whereby Ukr gave up its nukes in exchange for territorial guarantees:

"What does the current military aggression of the Russian Federation on Ukrainian territory mean?" he said.

"It means that a country which voluntarily gave up nuclear weapons, rejected nuclear status and received guarantees from the world's leading countries is left defenseless and alone in the face of a nuclear state that is armed to the teeth.

"I say this to our Western partners: if you do not provide guarantees, which were signed in the Budapest Memorandum, then explain how you will persuade Iran or North Korea to give up their status as nuclear states."
​

well...

This is the type of situation that makes me nostalgic for the pre-WWII days when America could afford to have an isolationist foreign policy.

 

[Michchamp]

This is the type of situation that makes me nostalgic for the pre-WWII days when America could afford to have an isolationist foreign policy.

I think you mean pre-WWI. even before we entered WW2 we were involved in the battle of the Atlantic and supplying the UK with destroyers.

 

[KAWDUP]

That sounds like it's going to be pretty hard, and also kind of stupid.

Why don't they just build a new one out there?

You literalist.

. . . but I will be sure to tell them what you think.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Just heard the interim President of Ukraine is in DC meeting with Obama.

 

[Gulo Blue]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/13/w...l-finds-limits-of-her-rapport-with-putin.html

Angela Merkel grew up in East Germany and speaks fluent Russian. It sounds like she has the best relationship with Putin of any western leader and she's been the one talking to him the most recently.