Voter suppression alive and well

[Gulo Blue]

I think it's naive to think key parts of the Voting Right Act were struck down, new voting rights laws enacted, the Black vote drops for the first time in 20 years, and it's all a coincidence.


It's not unrelated to the racial bias thread. Death by 1,000 cuts. Lots of little things that might not seem like a big deal on their own end up making an impact when put together. These laws are passed in full knowledge of what that impact is.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think it's naive to think key parts of the Voting Right Act were struck down, new voting rights laws enacted, the Black vote drops for the first time in 20 years, and it's all a coincidence.


It's not unrelated to the racial bias thread. Death by 1,000 cuts. Lots of little things that might not seem like a big deal on their own end up making an impact when put together. These laws are passed in full knowledge of what that impact is.

wasn't it at an all-time high when Obama ran? Wouldn't it drop regardless?

 

[Gulo Blue]

wasn't it at an all-time high when Obama ran? Wouldn't it drop regardless?

I'm not sure if it was all time, but it had gone up each time over the twenty year period. But so what if it was; you could make the same argument about the previous election and be wrong.

 

[tomdalton22]

I'm not sure if it was all time, but it had gone up each time over the twenty year period. But so what if it was; you could make the same argument about the previous election and be wrong.

The record turnouts in 2008 & 2012 were because there was a black candidate. It dropped significantly in 2016. That is no coincidence.

 

[Gulo Blue]

The record turnouts in 2008 & 2012 were because there was a black candidate. It dropped significantly in 2016. That is no coincidence.

So, you think it's an Obama spike in the numbers?

 

[tomdalton22]

So, you think it's an Obama spike in the numbers?

from the Pew research article

The candidacy in 2008 and 2012 of Barack Obama, the nation?s first black president, is no doubt one of the main reasons for these new patterns. But there are other explanations as well, including the increased racial and ethnic diversity of the electorate, and a declining turnout rate among whites.

 

[Gulo Blue]

from the Pew research article

The candidacy in 2008 and 2012 of Barack Obama, the nation?s first black president, is no doubt one of the main reasons for these new patterns. But there are other explanations as well, including the increased racial and ethnic diversity of the electorate, and a declining turnout rate among whites.

Sure. One of the main reason. But in 2016 they lost all progress from the previous 2 elections. These things don't happen in a vacuum.


So fine. There are 2 explanations. You can be naive, or you can think it's all about Obama. I get that people are obsessed about him, but to think in the age of big data, that it's all about Obama and the people pushing these laws aren't doing it 100% for the partisan impact and the argument about voter fraud is just a bald faced lie, it's tough for me to think that's anything but willful ignorance.

 

[tomdalton22]

Sure. One of the main reason. But in 2016 they lost all progress from the previous 2 elections. These things don't happen in a vacuum.


So fine. There are 2 explanations. You can be naive, or you can think it's all about Obama. I get that people are obsessed about him, but to think in the age of big data, that it's all about Obama and the people pushing these laws aren't doing it 100% for the partisan impact and the argument about voter fraud is just a bald faced lie, it's tough for me to think that's anything but willful ignorance.

look at the graph that you posted as evidence. The trends for white voters and black voters were very similar from 1988 - 2004. Then in 2008 and 2012, the trends got out of whack and now they are back to normal. The only anomalies on the graph are 2008 & 2012.

 

[Gulo Blue]

look at the graph that you posted as evidence. The trends for white voters and black voters were very similar from 1988 - 2004. Then in 2008 and 2012, the trends got out of whack and now they are back to normal. The only anomalies on the graph are 2008 & 2012.

I see a gap that is roughly cut in half and then bounces back some in that time period.

 

[Spartanmack]

Sure. One of the main reason. But in 2016 they lost all progress from the previous 2 elections. These things don't happen in a vacuum.


So fine. There are 2 explanations. You can be naive, or you can think it's all about Obama. I get that people are obsessed about him, but to think in the age of big data, that it's all about Obama and the people pushing these laws aren't doing it 100% for the partisan impact and the argument about voter fraud is just a bald faced lie, it's tough for me to think that's anything but willful ignorance.

clearly, it must be voter suppression because trends go on forever and any disruption of a trend is due to an undermining of the trend, always and forever. And if you look at the data and come up with a plausible alternative explanation, well then, you're just being na?ve or willfully ignorant. You're starting to sound a lot like mc - just substitute na?ve for racist.

 

[Gulo Blue]

clearly, it must be voter suppression because trends go on forever and any disruption of a trend is due to an undermining of the trend, always and forever. And if you look at the data and come up with a plausible alternative explanation, well then, you're just being na?ve or willfully ignorant. You're starting to sound a lot like mc - just substitute na?ve for racist.

That's not what I said. I don't reject Obama's influence as significant, I think it's naive to think the motive is voter fraud prevention and not partisan advantage.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Look at what I said "So fine. There are 2 explanations. You can be naive, or you can think it's all about Obama." I specifically accepted it as as alternate explanation and didn't make the argument you're claiming.

 

[Gulo Blue]

https://www.facebook.com/michiganfball/videos/315062565984990/

 

[biggunsbob]

Stop closing polling locations, and open up more to make it easier for everyone to vote .

 

[tomdalton22]

Stop closing polling locations, and open up more to make it easier for everyone to vote .

Georgia has no excuse mail-in absentee voting. Closing polling stations won't impact anybody's ability to vote.

 

[Spartanmack]

Look at what I said "So fine. There are 2 explanations. You can be naive, or you can think it's all about Obama." I specifically accepted it as as alternate explanation and didn't make the argument you're claiming.

didn't you, in this next sentence basically say that the second explanation wasn't plausible?

...So fine. There are 2 explanations. You can be naive, or you can think it's all about Obama. I get that people are obsessed about him, but to think in the age of big data, that it's all about Obama and the people pushing these laws aren't doing it 100% for the partisan impact and the argument about voter fraud is just a bald faced lie, it's tough for me to think that's anything but willful ignorance.

sounds like you're saying "OK, there can be 2 arguments but mine is legit and the second one is bullshit."

 

[Gulo Blue]

didn't you, in this next sentence basically say that the second explanation wasn't plausible?



sounds like you're saying "OK, there can be 2 arguments but mine is legit and the second one is bullshit."

That's not what those words mean. I said there are two explanations and it's not all the Obama explanation and the motivation of people pushing these laws aren't what they claim.


The part you bolded doesn't suggest the Obama argument is bullshit and neither does any other part.

 

[Spartanmack]

That's not what those words mean. I said there are two explanations and it's not all the Obama explanation and the motivation of people pushing these laws aren't what they claim.


The part you bolded doesn't suggest the Obama argument is bullshit and neither does any other part.

I disagree on two counts then. First, I think most or virtually all of the impact is due to the fact that Obama wasn't running and his replacement not only wasn't black but was also the worst candidate in the race on either side. Second, I think a lot of the features of these laws are about election security and reducing voter fraud or the potential for it. All of it, maybe not, but while it may be na?ve to think every feature of these laws are 100% about elections security, I think it's equally na?ve to think it's 100% voter suppression.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I disagree on two counts then. First, I think most or virtually all of the impact is due to the fact that Obama wasn't running and his replacement not only wasn't black but was also the worst candidate in the race on either side. Second, I think a lot of the features of these laws are about election security and reducing voter fraud or the potential for it. All of it, maybe not, but while it may be na?ve to think every feature of these laws are 100% about elections security, I think it's equally na?ve to think it's 100% voter suppression.

I just want to highlight that I believe this in the case of the people in power. The actual people writing the bills. I believe they are looking at statistics projecting the potential impact not just of the actual policy, but how it plays with focus groups and all of it.


Average Joe internet commenter, sure, they often genuinely believe it's about voter fraud.

 

[Spartanmack]

I just want to highlight that I believe this in the case of the people in power. The actual people writing the bills. I believe they are looking at statistics projecting the potential impact not just of the actual policy, but how it plays with focus groups and all of it.


Average Joe internet commenter, sure, they often genuinely believe it's about voter fraud.

that takes care of mc and few others here but what about the above average joe internet commenter, not to mention those who write the laws and believe it's about voter fraud? They can't all be vote suppressors and the ones that are, I liken them to the idiots that write the kitchen sink gun control laws then complain that we can't get "common sense" gun laws passed.