voters and polls are odd

[Michchamp]

It appears that the more voters hear from Trump (or Pence) the less they support him. polls had closed to within 10 points for the last month, while Trump largely stayed off twitter, and just went around giving mundane speeches about racial tolerance and injustice to his confused supporters, who had only showed up because they were eager to sucker punch some protestors (especially black or hispanic ones) like the good old days of earlier this year.

so, unsurprisingly, after the two debates, Clinton's lead has increased again to "landslide territory" if the election were held today.

but I'm curious what that's all about... what kind of person makes a decision to support or oppose a candidate, then backslides just because that person drops out of the newscycle for a couple weeks? people have such fickle attention spans...? and as soon as they hear from them again, switch back?

"Boy that Trump is a real lying, racist, pandering piece of shit. How could he go and insult military veterans, minorities, and brag abouy not paying taxes? but as long as he keeps his mouth shut, he has my vote."

In the end maybe it's really an indictment of how unlikeable Hillary Clinton is.

 

[deathroh]

Well, when people are forced to decide between a giant douche and a turd sandwich you can expect the results to be a little fishy and just messy in general.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I was wrong about Trump getting a bump from his demonstration of Trumpiness during the debate.

 

[tinselwolverine]

so, unsurprisingly, after the two debates, Clinton's lead has increased again to "landslide territory" if the election were held today...

Trump went off message and and again revealed his insanity after the first debate and it's been reflected in the polls.

His craziness after the debate was more damaging than the debate itself.

It isn't "after" the second debate enough to get a measure of any response to it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I saw an ad on facebook, there's a new push to get Gary Johnson votes through a website that will match republican and democrat voters so they can mutually agree to vote third party so they don't feel they're supporting the other side by going 3rd party.

The talk I heard on the radio said Pence clearly won the debate for Pence (as opposed to winning it for Trump.) By the end of the talk they were talking about Pence running in 2020 and how he had qualities that would appeal to the right the way Reagan did.

 

[tinselwolverine]

The talk I heard on the radio said Pence clearly won the debate for Pence (as opposed to winning it for Trump.) By the end of the talk they were talking about Pence running in 2020 and how he had qualities that would appeal to the right the way Reagan did.

How much of this is true, I don't know, but according to the talking heads at CNN Trump was pleased with Pence right after the debate and told him so.

After listening to the media coverage of the debate, and hearing it said that Kaine is a better debater than Trump, and that Pence is a better than Trump, and Pence's ignoring Kaine's references to all the crazy shit that Trump has said was primarily pretty much Pence setting himself up for a 2020 run, Trump is starting to get pissed off and less happy with Pence's performance.

 

[Michchamp]

I saw an ad on facebook, there's a new push to get Gary Johnson votes through a website that will match republican and democrat voters so they can mutually agree to vote third party so they don't feel they're supporting the other side by going 3rd party.

The talk I heard on the radio said Pence clearly won the debate for Pence (as opposed to winning it for Trump.) By the end of the talk they were talking about Pence running in 2020 and how he had qualities that would appeal to the right the way Reagan did.

these things aren't actually debates, in the standard definition of the term. no one is docked points for saying outright falsehoods, or scored if they actually make a coherent point.

in fact, you can win these "debates" without ever making an actual coherent point, since some large portion of voters lack the ability to reason or think critically, and seem to favor who "seems like a nice man" or "who they would rather have a beer with."

From the portions of the "debate" I heard, Kaine was a lot more aggressive, talking over Pence and interrupting him. That - not the actual content of what was said - means more to a lot of people. this guy writing for CNN seems to agree with me.

hilariously, Pence getting more positive reviews than Trump in his "debate" performance might cause the thin-skinned Trump to blow up his own campaign out of jealousy... according to the rumor and gossip mill. I could see that happening.

 

[tinselwolverine]

this guy writing for CNN seems to agree with me.

"This guy writing for CNN" is a pretty established politico...From the link:

David Gergen is a senior political analyst for CNN and has been a White House adviser to four presidents. A graduate of Harvard Law School, he is a professor of public service and co-director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. Follow him @david_gergen. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.

hilariously, Pence getting more positive reviews than Trump in his "debate" performance might cause the thin-skinned Trump to blow up his own campaign out of jealousy... according to the rumor and gossip mill. I could see that happening.

I kind of referred to this in the post just above yours...

 

[Gulo Blue]

From the portions of the "debate" I heard, Kaine was a lot more aggressive, talking over Pence and interrupting him. That - not the actual content of what was said - means more to a lot of people.

I don't really blame people for this. You've probably heard several times that a copy of the New York Times has more news in it than a typical feudal serf would hear in his entire lifetime...that comparison needs to be updated for the information age. Your phone comes with a long contract and it's preloaded with apps that each have their own contracts. There are so many unjust-but-dense-with-information issues out there, we feel like we're making an effort if we read about them. Really, it's just a weird form of entertainment, since there are too many to ever do anything about any of them. If Aleppo can slip Gary Johnson's mind, what chance does the average voter have?

 

[tigermud]

I watched some of the VP debate, baseball is over, nothing else to watch.. I thought Pence did a decent job and won hands down, Kaine is a blowhard and had nothing but talking points all night long, trump is this trump is that. After nice long answer from pence about jobs and the economy, Kaine says something like look this all comes down to do you want a president who says you're hired or one that says you're fired.

I yelled out I want one that says all you clowns are fired you soundbite wind bag!

 

[TheVictors]

Didn't watch the VP debate but did watch Don and Hill last week. Frankly, I don't see the point of the VP debates other than if the candidates are seeking higher office at some point.

In 2008 Sarah Palin simply repeated the same lines over and over and never actually engaged in a debate and I think largely the VP debates are intended to be this way. So from what I have read elsewhere and now here on the board, Pence tried to neutralize the debacle that was Trump's performance and maybe right the ship a bit and Kaine was like the instigator in hockey, poking at his ribs the whole night.

But to the OP, I'd say what's happened is that polling hasn't accurately reflected actual voter sentiment for how people will vote, yet ...but after some folks I know who I know are GOP voters said they'd never vote Trump, I think even some dyed in the wool Republicans are backing away from the man.

Because he came across horribly and seems highly unstable, in general.

 

[Sbee]

I watched some of the VP debate, baseball is over, nothing else to watch.. I thought Pence did a decent job and won hands down, Kaine is a blowhard and had nothing but talking points all night long, trump is this trump is that. After nice long answer from pence about jobs and the economy, Kaine says something like look this all comes down to do you want a president who says you're hired or one that says you're fired.

I yelled out I want one that says all you clowns are fired you soundbite wind bag!

Pence knows 10x as much as Trump about policy and would make a much better president than he would, even though I disagree with him on a lot of things, he has more maturity than the 5th grader at the top of the ticket.

Kaine spent a lot of time trying to get Pence to comment on things that Trump has said as opposed to the issues. It's not a bad strategy but Pence just didn't answer the questions when asked about Trump saying that he's smarter than the generals, that he'd support punishment for women who get abortions, that South Korea, Japan, and Saudi Arabia should have nuclear weapons, etc. Kaine pushed trying to get him to answer those questions, but Pence refused and Kaine came off as argumentative.

 

[Thumb]

Pence knows 10x as much as Trump about policy and would make a much better president than he would, even though I disagree with him on a lot of things, he has more maturity than the 5th grader at the top of the ticket.

Kaine spent a lot of time trying to get Pence to comment on things that Trump has said as opposed to the issues. It's not a bad strategy but Pence just didn't answer the questions when asked about Trump saying that he's smarter than the generals, that he'd support punishment for women who get abortions, that South Korea, Japan, and Saudi Arabia should have nuclear weapons, etc. Kaine pushed trying to get him to answer those questions, but Pence refused and Kaine came off as argumentative.

One thing that always puzzled me is why there is a separate vote for VP on the ballot. Because those votes themselves mean nothing at all, because if Hillary gets more electoral votes than Trump, Tim Kaine is going to be the VP no matter how many votes Mike Pence got.

Which is why I think the VP's should be debating the top candidates positions, not their own. And in that sense Kaine did what he should have while Pence ducked and weaved. If these 2 were running for POTUS then Pence probably would have been considered the debate winner, but as we all know, any old idiot (potatoe) can be VP without really changing anything at the top of the ticket at all.

 

[biggunsbob]

Pence is just as big as dirt bag as Kaine. His record in Indiana is not very good.
No matter how he tried to spin all of Trump's lies yesterday ,and he just Keep shaking that head when get nalied on Trump's lies lol...
Clinton runs the worst campaign of all time . Just like verses Obama. Instead Of Bring Bernie and his people in and asking for advice on running mates for VP she picks Dufus Kaine. Pence may have won that debate but he really only was helping himself it looked like to me and not Trump alot of times. Damn Pence is so conservative he freaks me out more the nitwit Trump. Clinton is a idiot. She should be blowing out Trump but she and her staff is just to freaking dumb. .

 

[tinselwolverine]

One thing that always puzzled me is why there is a separate vote for VP on the ballot. Because those votes themselves mean nothing at all, because if Hillary gets more electoral votes than Trump, Tim Kaine is going to be the VP no matter how many votes Mike Pence got.

I've never seen a separate vote for vice President on any presidential ballot I've ever seen. In my voting lifetime, the presidential and vice presidential candidates of a party have always been bundled together as one vote for the ticket.

 

[MSUMatt28]

Pence is just as big as dirt bag as Kaine. His record in Indiana is not very good.
No matter how he tried to spin all of Trump's lies yesterday ,and he just Keep shaking that head when get nalied on Trump's lies lol...
Clinton runs the worst campaign of all time . Just like verses Obama. Instead Of Bring Bernie and his people in and asking for advice on running mates for VP she picks Dufus Kaine. Pence may have won that debate but he really only was helping himself it looked like to me and not Trump alot of times. Damn Pence is so conservative he freaks me out more the nitwit Trump. Clinton is a idiot. She should be blowing out Trump but she and her staff is just to freaking dumb. .

Kind of agree with this. Trump may be the worst candidate of all-time, but the Dems are running the worst campaign off all time (well in my lifetime). They are so fixated on Trump (as if people can't figure what an idiot he is) that they seem all too willing to lower themselves to his level, and they can't even talk about the issues. And that is still not getting them to convince me, a still undecided voter, to cast my vote for them.


Dealing with these two and their campaigns is pretty much exactly like dealing with my kids' disagreements. Soon enough I don't care who started it or who did or said what that was worse than the other, and I just send them all to their rooms, lol.

 

[TheVictors]

One thing I would point out regarding this election and this year is that unlike 2008 or even 2012, things really aren't that bad for the 'Average American.' The whole 'Make America Great Again' platitude is based on, what?? Making America Great or making America great for angry, uneducated and xenophobic white folks?

I see much of this election's issues as contrived and manufactured. In 2000 it was the Blue Dress and 8yrs of Clinton and the Bush idea to 'bring respectability back to the White House.' In 2004 it was all about WMDs and terrorists and 9/11 was still very recent. In 2008, the World was coming to an end and the nation was very divided ...2012, like this election, a bit of fluff because when asked if they were better off in 2012 than 2008, the answer was yes.

And same today. For absolutely everybody? No, of course not. But the majority of Americans aren't buying the notion that America Sucks and needs Trump to save us anymore than most feel Clinton brings anything of true value to the table.

I have been calling this the TMZ Election because it's all about the entertainment and shock value. There have never been two bigger boobs to choose from than this year but in the end, the First Woman President of the US might be compelling enough reason for history to vote in Clinton, amidst a relatively benign backdrop.

But what about all these terrorist attacks in Orlando, Paris & San Bernardino???

Yeah, a Trump Presidency won't stop them any more than invading Iraq did.

 

[Sbee]

One thing I would point out regarding this election and this year is that unlike 2008 or even 2012, things really aren't that bad for the 'Average American.' The whole 'Make America Great Again' platitude is based on, what?? Making America Great or making America great for angry, uneducated and xenophobic white folks?

I see much of this election's issues as contrived and manufactured. In 2000 it was the Blue Dress and 8yrs of Clinton and the Bush idea to 'bring respectability back to the White House.' In 2004 it was all about WMDs and terrorists and 9/11 was still very recent. In 2008, the World was coming to an end and the nation was very divided ...2012, like this election, a bit of fluff because when asked if they were better off in 2012 than 2008, the answer was yes.

And same today. For absolutely everybody? No, of course not. But the majority of Americans aren't buying the notion that America Sucks and needs Trump to save us anymore than most feel Clinton brings anything of true value to the table.

I have been calling this the TMZ Election because it's all about the entertainment and shock value. There have never been two bigger boobs to choose from than this year but in the end, the First Woman President of the US might be compelling enough reason for history to vote in Clinton, amidst a relatively benign backdrop.

But what about all these terrorist attacks in Orlando, Paris & San Bernardino???

Yeah, a Trump Presidency won't stop them any more than invading Iraq did.

Wages are up, unemployment is down, stock market is surging, more people are covered by healthcare, GDP is up, violent crime is down, but those facts don't matter, you can play to people's perceptions that are oftentimes incorrect.

 

[Sbee]

Kind of agree with this. Trump may be the worst candidate of all-time, but the Dems are running the worst campaign off all time (well in my lifetime). They are so fixated on Trump (as if people can't figure what an idiot he is) that they seem all too willing to lower themselves to his level, and they can't even talk about the issues. And that is still not getting them to convince me, a still undecided voter, to cast my vote for them.


Dealing with these two and their campaigns is pretty much exactly like dealing with my kids' disagreements. Soon enough I don't care who started it or who did or said what that was worse than the other, and I just send them all to their rooms, lol.

I do also think that the republicans are very fixated on Hillary, maybe because it's almost impossible to defend their candidate.

Another facet to this is that Hillary has been the presumptive 2016 nominee since Obama won his second term. There were anti hillary super pac's raising money 4 years ago, she's been right in the crosshairs for 4 years so there has been ample opportunity to attack her for just about everything she's ever done. She hasn't helped herself in some instances, but I'd have to think that if there was a situation where everyone knew who the GOP nominee would be 4 years ahead of time, Democrats would have a pretty good script. It would be like being able to scout an opponent for 4 years while the other side had 6 months.