Zimmerman To Be Charged

[Thumb]

I don't understand this. I think anyone with a brain can see that Zimmerman wasn't targeting Trayvon Martin. I don't think he had the intention to kill the kid. However, he did disobey the 911 operator's instructions and went out of his way to confront him, which led to him killing TM. At the very least, I call that manslaughter.

I mean, what would any of you do if some weird older guy (old compared to TM) confronted you? I'd call TM's lashing out and beating Zimmerman up a very predictable reaction.

Manslaughter. No more. No less.

But to get all angry and threaten him...unwarranted.

You're oversimplifying it so much it's hilarious.

I think anyone with a brain can see that Zimmerman wasn't targeting Trayvon Martin.

Right, he was only targeting a black youth in a hoodie, just so happens his name was Trayvon Martin.

I don't think he had the intention to kill the kid.

His intentions are irrelevant, his actions are not.

At the very least, I call that manslaughter.

Well you would be wrong. http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1209


It's still second degree murder by any definition of the law, manslaughter would be a joke.

Second Degree Murder: a non-premeditated killing, resulting from an assault in which death of the victim was a distinct possibility.

I agree the people who threaten Zimmerman are just as bad as he is, they all have a vigilante mindset, which started this mess in the first place.

 

[redandguilty]

His intentions are irrelevant, his actions are not.

From the definition you posted for manslaughter:

"It is distinguished from murder (which brings greater penalties) by lack of any prior intention to kill anyone or create a deadly situation."

 

[Michchamp]

If stand your ground means that people are justified in using force when they have a reasonable belief that they are in danger of bodily harm, then whenever two people are threatening each other, wouldn't it apply to both of them?

yes.

in theory.

in practice, if you're black, you're going to be convicted of murder or aggravated assault (or an equivalent felony offense) the vast majority of the time.

if you're white, it's a different story.

there was a study done recently that compiled all the outcomes of criminal trials in which one party used "stand your ground" as a defense.

 

[redandguilty]

yes.

in theory.

in practice, if you're black, you're going to be convicted of murder or aggravated assault (or an equivalent felony offense) the vast majority of the time.

if you're white, it's a different story.

there was a study done recently that compiled all the outcomes of criminal trials in which one party used "stand your ground" as a defense.

I saw a headline about that Stand Your Ground study. Law and bias are messed up.

 

[Thumb]

From the definition you posted for manslaughter:

"It is distinguished from murder (which brings greater penalties) by lack of any prior intention to kill anyone or create a deadly situation."

That only covers half. What Monster said, and I'm inferring by the use of "intentions" is killing him. He still created a deadly situation.

 

[redandguilty]

That only covers half. What Monster said, and I'm inferring by the use of "intentions" is killing him. He still created a deadly situation.

But it matters if he had prior intention to create a deadly situation. The other interpretation would imply that accidents are manslaughter.

 

[Thumb]

But it matters if he had prior intention to create a deadly situation. The other interpretation would imply that accidents are manslaughter.

So he didn't intend to chase Trayvon down and do whatever it is people want to call it, assault, detain, accost, arrest, confront, or whatever to him while carrying and possibly wielding a loaded gun?

 

[redandguilty]

So he didn't intend to chase Trayvon down and do whatever it is people want to call it, assault, detain, accost, arrest, confront, or whatever to him while carrying and possibly wielding a loaded gun?

Are you asking me? That's what the trial is about. Looking for evidence of intent. It's difficult to prove intent when he says he didn't and you only hear his side of the story. He probably won't ever say he wanted to assault, detain, accost, arrest, or confront Martin.

Come to think of it, if he called the police about 50 times, he probably has a history of following people he deemed suspicious. I wonder if he had ever confronted any of the others. If he did, I bet the prosecution will be bringing it up in the next few days.

 

[redandguilty]

OK. How's this for a theory? I can't tell who was yelling for help from the short clips I've heard, but it seems that whoever was yelling, was yelling at a higher pitch than they generally speak. Also, Zimmerman put on 110-120 lbs.

If this link is to be believed, dramatic weight gain can raise vocal pitch in men.

http://www.ohniww.org/effects-of-weight-gain-loss-voice-singing/

 

[redandguilty]

I'm also curious about the wounds. No bruising. Small cuts. How did that happen?

 

[tinselwolverine]

This freakin' trial is BOOOOO-ring...

And it's on all the news networks...

I've turned on the Irish Open on the golf channel...

 

[KAWDUP]

This freakin' trial is BOOOOO-ring...

And it's on all the news networks...

I've turned on the Irish Open on the golf channel...

There's always Wimbledon highlights and matches.

 

[tinselwolverine]

There's always Wimbledon highlights and matches.

That's on ESPN right?

I think I'll turn that on too...

 

[Michchamp]

But it matters if he had prior intention to create a deadly situation. The other interpretation would imply that accidents are manslaughter.

So he didn't intend to chase Trayvon down and do whatever it is people want to call it, assault, detain, accost, arrest, confront, or whatever to him while carrying and possibly wielding a loaded gun?

well... since we're all speculating based on media reports instead of trial transcripts, I'll join in.

While the defense could argue that Zimmerman didn't go out that night intending to kill Martin (or anyone else), i.e. he had no intent, his actions were beyond reckless, and muddy the waters here. for example, you can't use self-defense as a defense to a murder charge when you intentionally or knowingly put yourself in a situation where you have to use deadly force.

didn't we post the definitions of murder from the Florida Criminal code a while back? there was a LONG thread on the board a while ago. If I remember correctly, it wouldn't be too hard to prove the elements of a murder charge against Zimmerman, based on his conduct.

Although... this being Florida, who knows how the jury will rule? Florida is a very different place.

it will come down to the credibility of Zimmerman's story, versus the testimony of the other few witnesses (the girlfriend and anyone else Martin was speaking to on the phone), the 911 call recordings, and pure common sense... i.e. why exactly a 250 lb armed man was following around a scrawny teenager who went to a store to get candy, and why he was justified in using deadly force to defend himself at some point.

 

[Monster]

this friend on the stand (the one who was on the phone with him) is completely disrespectful. She has no idea what the fuck she is doing and then lying about things that actually matter. Talk about Ghetto trash. And I don't say that because she's black, I say that because she's trash.

She looks bored and uninterested and looks completely useless as a witness for the prosecution. It's a shame she doesn't have a bit more intelligence because she's the only person outside of Zimmerman that actually heard what happened.

 

[redandguilty]

it will come down to the credibility of Zimmerman's story, versus the testimony of the other few witnesses (the girlfriend and anyone else Martin was speaking to on the phone), the 911 call recordings, and pure common sense... i.e. why exactly a 250 lb armed man was following around a scrawny teenager who went to a store to get candy, and why he was justified in using deadly force to defend himself at some point.

My understanding is that at the time it was a 190 lb, 5'8" Zimmerman and a 150 lb, 5'11" Martin. +40 lbs but 3 inches shorter. Between that and the voices, all this "child's voice" or "the bigger guy" talk doesn't help much. The one eyewitness that said something that was discriminating between the two is the one that said she saw that the guy on top was the one that got up after the shot. That would conflict with Zimmerman's story. However, she also said she heard "pop, pop, pop" when there was only 1 shot, so who know how the jury will see that.

 

[redandguilty]

this friend on the stand (the one who was on the phone with him) is completely disrespectful. She has no idea what the fuck she is doing and then lying about things that actually matter. Talk about Ghetto trash. And I don't say that because she's black, I say that because she's trash.

She looks bored and uninterested and looks completely useless as a witness for the prosecution. It's a shame she doesn't have a bit more intelligence because she's the only person outside of Zimmerman that actually heard what happened.

Keep in mind the news companies are probably handpicking the clips that they think will draw eyeballs. I tuned in to the live feed for a bit and I saw something different from the descriptions I read. I'm not sure what's going on with her, but this clearly isn't her at her best. I think after hours of grilling she's just worn out and wants to retreat and hide somehow. She can't even keep speaking loudly enough to be heard. I'm afraid she'd say whatever she thinks she has to to get off that stand.

 

[Thumb]

I don't get why the judge or states attorney are letting him ask her the same question 20 times? Asked and answered man.

 

[Monster]

I don't get why the judge or states attorney are letting him ask her the same question 20 times? Asked and answered man.

Agreed.

 

[Monster]

"I was been paying attention, sir." - like nails on a chalkboard.