Not excited about Clinton's candidacy

[tigersofjustice]

She pushes stupid leftist policies (student loan forgiveness, the minimum wage, Dodd Frank, etc, etc).

There should really be threads discussing these topics and others that tend to be more 'right' leaning as well just so I can read opinions that differ from my own that are more than, 'it is stupid and I don't like it'. I have at least an appreciation for an articulated reason for not liking something that makes at least some kind of sense.

 

[Spartanmack]

There should really be threads discussing these topics and others that tend to be more 'right' leaning as well just so I can read opinions that differ from my own that are more than, 'it is stupid and I don't like it'. I have at least an appreciation for an articulated reason for not liking something that makes at least some kind of sense.

These topics have all been covered in separate threads already. We've also covered race relations from a multitude of angles, the Middle East ad nauseum, police brutality, etc, etc. I'm sorry you missed them but I've already explained myself at length over the last year plus on many of these topics. If you want to start new threads on them go ahead, but I'm not going to apologize for not spelling out the same arguments in detail again in this thread.

 

[Spartanmack]

Right. No legitimate responses that are on topic so you will just take your ball and go home.

If you think bringing up Bush to explain or justify Warren doing the same thing, particularly in a thread about Democrat primary candidates is a legitimate response and not deflecting, then clearly there is no point in having this conversation. You can say I'm taking my ball and going home all you want. I'm still here, I'm just not going to indulge your childish nonsense. By the way, sweet emoji - you win the internets again!

 

[biggunsbob]

That, and she's an idiot but neither being an idiot or a liar bars her from being President of the United States.

I know. This country voted for that actor Ronald Reagan :/

What was his roll In Iran-Contra again LOL a lot of guys sure were Indicted. Shame it happens all the time at the highest office in the land..

Caspar Weinberger, Secretary of Defense, was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice on June 16, 1992.[68] Weinberger received a pardon from
George H. W. Bush on December 24, 1992, before he was tried.[69]

William Casey, Head of the CIA. Thought to have conceived the plan, was stricken ill hours before he would testify. Reporter Bob Woodward reported Casey knew of and approved the plan.[70]

Robert C. McFarlane, National Security Adviser, convicted of withholding evidence, but after a plea bargain was given only two years of probation. Later pardoned by President George H. W. Bush.[71]

Elliott Abrams, Assistant Secretary of State, convicted of withholding evidence, but after a plea bargain was given only two years probation. Later pardoned by President George H. W. Bush.[72]

Alan D. Fiers, Chief of the CIA's Central American Task Force, convicted of withholding evidence and sentenced to one year probation. Later pardoned by President George H. W. Bush.

Clair George, Chief of Covert Ops-CIA, convicted on two charges of perjury, but pardoned by President George H. W. Bush before sentencing.[73]

Oliver North, member of the National Security Council convicted of accepting an illegal gratuity, obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents, but the ruling was overturned since he had been granted immunity.[74]

Fawn Hall, Oliver North's secretary, was given immunity from prosecution on charges of conspiracy and destroying documents in exchange for her testimony.[75]

Jonathan Scott Royster, Liaison to Oliver North, was given immunity from prosecution on charges of conspiracy and destroying documents in exchange for his testimony.[76]

National Security Advisor John Poindexter was convicted of five counts of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, perjury, defrauding the government, and the alteration and destruction of evidence. The Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling that overturned these convictions.[77]

Duane Clarridge. An ex-CIA senior official, he was indicted in November 1991 on seven counts of perjury and false statements relating to a November 1985 shipment to Iran. Pardoned before trial by President George H. W. Bush.[78][79]

Richard V. Secord. Ex-major general in the Air Force who organized the Iran arms sales and Contra aid. He pleaded guilty in November 1989 to making false statements to Congress and was sentenced to two years of probation.[80][81]

Albert Hakim. A businessman, he pleaded guilty in November 1989 to supplementing the salary of North by buying a $13,800 fence for North with money from "the Enterprise", which was a set of foreign companies Hakim used in Iran-Contra. In addition, Swiss company Lake Resources Inc., used for storing money from arms sales to Iran to give to the Contras, plead guilty to stealing government property.[82] Hakim was given two years of probation and a $5,000 fine, while Lake Resources Inc. was ordered to dissolve.[80][83]

 

[Thumb]

If you think bringing up Bush to explain or justify Warren doing the same thing, particularly in a thread about Democrat primary candidates is a legitimate response and not deflecting, then clearly there is no point in having this conversation. You can say I'm taking my ball and going home all you want. I'm still here, I'm just not going to indulge your childish nonsense. By the way, sweet emoji - you win the internets again!

So your sad excuse is that the topic changed from being about Hillary, so it's all deflection. That's a nice get-out-of-jail-free card you used there. I'll have to remember to use that argument against you in the future, of course, I don't expect you will want to play by those rules then, will you?

And as far as you complaining about my use of an emoji, I'll stop using them when you stop editing every goddamn post you write on this forum like you have chronic OCD or something.

 

[Spartanmack]

So your sad excuse is that the topic changed from being about Hillary, so it's all deflection. That's a nice get-out-of-jail-free card you used there. I'll have to remember to use that argument against you in the future, of course, I don't expect you will want to play by those rules then, will you?

And as far as you complaining about my use of an emoji, I'll stop using them when you stop editing every goddamn post you write on this forum like you have chronic OCD or something.

Oh so he was changing the subject and that's not deflecting - thanks for clearing that up. Help me understand the rules here - do I have to answer every time someone changes the subject or just when someone on your team does it? If I don't have something valid to say, I can just change the topic?

Don't worry - I won't have to play by those rules because I don't make stupid arguments like "this person did it too and you vote for their party therefore you like that person so that makes it OK".

I wasn't complaining about you using emojis - I was laughing at you for it. So you're saying that was the anti-editing emoji or are you saying editing posts is as childish as using emojis? What do you have against editing?

 

[Spartanmack]

I know. This country voted for that actor Ronald Reagan :/

What was his roll In Iran-Contra again LOL a lot of guys sure were Indicted. Shame it happens all the time at the highest office in the land..

Caspar Weinberger, Secretary of Defense, was indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice on June 16, 1992.[68] Weinberger received a pardon from
George H. W. Bush on December 24, 1992, before he was tried.[69]

William Casey, Head of the CIA. Thought to have conceived the plan, was stricken ill hours before he would testify. Reporter Bob Woodward reported Casey knew of and approved the plan.[70]

Robert C. McFarlane, National Security Adviser, convicted of withholding evidence, but after a plea bargain was given only two years of probation. Later pardoned by President George H. W. Bush.[71]

Elliott Abrams, Assistant Secretary of State, convicted of withholding evidence, but after a plea bargain was given only two years probation. Later pardoned by President George H. W. Bush.[72]

Alan D. Fiers, Chief of the CIA's Central American Task Force, convicted of withholding evidence and sentenced to one year probation. Later pardoned by President George H. W. Bush.

Clair George, Chief of Covert Ops-CIA, convicted on two charges of perjury, but pardoned by President George H. W. Bush before sentencing.[73]

Oliver North, member of the National Security Council convicted of accepting an illegal gratuity, obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents, but the ruling was overturned since he had been granted immunity.[74]

Fawn Hall, Oliver North's secretary, was given immunity from prosecution on charges of conspiracy and destroying documents in exchange for her testimony.[75]

Jonathan Scott Royster, Liaison to Oliver North, was given immunity from prosecution on charges of conspiracy and destroying documents in exchange for his testimony.[76]

National Security Advisor John Poindexter was convicted of five counts of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, perjury, defrauding the government, and the alteration and destruction of evidence. The Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling that overturned these convictions.[77]

Duane Clarridge. An ex-CIA senior official, he was indicted in November 1991 on seven counts of perjury and false statements relating to a November 1985 shipment to Iran. Pardoned before trial by President George H. W. Bush.[78][79]

Richard V. Secord. Ex-major general in the Air Force who organized the Iran arms sales and Contra aid. He pleaded guilty in November 1989 to making false statements to Congress and was sentenced to two years of probation.[80][81]

Albert Hakim. A businessman, he pleaded guilty in November 1989 to supplementing the salary of North by buying a $13,800 fence for North with money from "the Enterprise", which was a set of foreign companies Hakim used in Iran-Contra. In addition, Swiss company Lake Resources Inc., used for storing money from arms sales to Iran to give to the Contras, plead guilty to stealing government property.[82] Hakim was given two years of probation and a $5,000 fine, while Lake Resources Inc. was ordered to dissolve.[80][83]

Are you Thumbs dad or his grandpa? At least those people were held accountable. If I were sbee or thumbass I might say something like maybe someday Hillary will be held accountable for whitewater (there's at least one murder tied to that one), travel gate, file gate, miracle cattle futures trading returns, Benghazi, the email scandal, or any one of the crimes she's suspected of during her time as secretary if state peddling access and influence to the highest bidders. And that would prove that the Iran Contra scandal was ok because a democrat did some things that were just as bad or worse. And then I could crack a joke about how all the stupid sheep in the country know all this but still can't wait to vote for her.

 

[biggunsbob]

Are you Thumbs dad or his grandpa? At least those people were held accountable. If I were sbee or thumbass I might say something like maybe someday Hillary will be held accountable for whitewater (there's at least one murder tied to that one), travel gate, file gate, miracle cattle futures trading returns, Benghazi, the email scandal, or any one of the crimes she's suspected of during her time as secretary if state peddling access and influence to the highest bidders. And that would prove that the Iran Contra scandal was ok because a democrat did some things that were just as bad or worse. And then I could crack a joke about how all the stupid sheep in the country know all this but still can't wait to vote for her.

Then most of them were pardoned By Bush but I guess you missed that.. Are you that dumb and blind.. You must have Fox-Noise on every tv in your house.. None of them are ok and if its ever proven in court CONTRA THEN MAYBE they will go to jail.. But the shit the Republican party has done to the American people since Reagan has just about destroyed this country.. But I guess you do not hold Bush's kid accountable for anything in the revisionist history inside your noggin... Thank whoever that your party lost in 2008...

 

[Spartanmack]

Then most of them were pardoned By Bush but I guess you missed that.. Are you that dumb and blind.. You must have Fox-Noise on every tv in your house.. None of them are ok and if its ever proven in court CONTRA THEN MAYBE they will go to jail.. But the shit the Republican party has done to the American people since Reagan has just about destroyed this country.. But I guess you do not hold Bush's kid accountable for anything in the revisionist history inside your noggin... Thank whoever that your party lost in 2008...

What does any of that have to do with anything I said about Elizabeth Warren? And how about you show me one thread where I've defended GW Bush, particularly his profligate spending. I've already said on here that I will not vote for Jeb Bush in the primary and most likely will abstain in the general if he wins the nomination - unless his opponent is so unpalatable that I have to vote against him or her on principle. And all these pro-establishment republican arguments you're projecting onto me are your words, not mine. I know I'm supposed to respect my elders but are you so dumb and or ill-informed that you don't realize that decades of free money from the fed and your parties failed social experiments are primarily responsible for the current state of affairs in this country. Oh, and I dont watch Fox News.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

:nod:

What does any of that have to do with anything I said about Elizabeth Warren? And how about you show me one thread where I've defended GW Bush. I've already said on here that I will not vote for Jeb Bush in the primary and most likely will abstain in the general if he wins the nomination - unless his opponent is so untenable that I have to vote against him or her on principle. I know you're an old man so maybe you no longer have full use of all your faculties but all these pro-establishment republican arguments you're projecting onto me are your words, not mine. Are you so dumb and or ill-informed that you don't realize that decades of free money from the fed and your parties failed social experiments are primarily responsible for the current state of affairs this country is in. And I dont watch Fox News.

:nod:

 

[biggunsbob]

You get so flustered all the time you start by call posters names and just deflect like you always do.. Here I will give you a clue.. I was answering your question on who was qualified since you were talking about Warren and said she was a idiot.. My guess is she was a million time smarter then Ronny.. I guess you just could follow the old Man. I was just using Reagan as a example that any dimwit can become president.

So lets rehash.
You think Warren is a idiot.
I think she is smarter then Reagan.
Clinton has not been found guilty and put in jail.
A bunch of guys from Ronny's team were
Then pardoned by a Bush.

Decades of free Money like you say.. Some programs are good and worth it and some programs are not. I do not think deregulation was a great thing for this country but others do. What the fuck do you guys really want.. Every program slashed/cut The right (Maybe not you) freaking do not want to pay any taxes.. Taxes have been slashed so many times since the 1950's and its never enough. Now if your talking about the corporate wealth-fare that corporations receive now days I will listen because I am sure they are not individuals.. Seriously WTF do you guys want ?

 

[biggunsbob]

Here I will answer it another way.

Elizabeth Warren would make a great President.
I am sure she is smarter then Clinton but probably could not beat her in a general election

Is that better kid?

 

[Spartanmack]

You get so flustered all the time you start by call posters names and just deflect like you always do.. Here I will give you a clue.. I was answering your question on who was qualified since you were talking about Warren and said she was a idiot.. My guess is she was a million time smarter then Ronny.. I guess you just could follow the old Man. I was just using Reagan as a example that any dimwit can become president.

So lets rehash.
You think Warren is a idiot.
I think she is smarter then Reagan.
Clinton has not been found guilty and put in jail.
A bunch of guys from Ronny's team were
Then pardoned by a Bush.

Decades of free Money like you say.. Some programs are good and worth it and some programs are not. I do not think deregulation was a great thing for this country but others do. What the fuck do you guys really want.. Every program slashed/cut The right (Maybe not you) freaking do not want to pay any taxes.. Taxes have been slashed so many times since the 1950's and its never enough. Now if your talking about the corporate wealth-fare that corporations receive now days I will listen because I am sure they are not individuals.. Seriously WTF do you guys want ?

You called me dumb - if you're disrespectful to me, I'll be disrespectful right back. And let's rehash who is deflecting - we were talking about Candidates for the democratic primary and I said Warren is an idiot, your response was she is smarter than Reagan. Reagan has been dead for 11 years - he's not a candidate for the Democratic Party primary. That's deflecting. I was too young to vote for Reagan in '80 and '84. I happen to think he was the greatest President of my lifetime but he has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand - that's a topic for another thread. If you want to play thumb's game by calling me names, changing the subject or deflecting arguments and then accuse me of calling you names and deflecting arguments go ahead. But you shouldn't be surprised when I show you the same level of respect you show me.

What I want is also a topic for another thread but briefly, to name a few I want:

Accountability
Term limits
Tax reform
Welfare reform
Freedom of religion
Privacy

And your claim about taxes being slashed since the fifties is simply incorrect. With a few exceptions (mostly recessions) US Treasury revenues have increased every year since 1950 and have remained fairly constant as a % of GDP. In the 25 years since I graduated from MSU, revenues have tripled - that's a growth rate of roughly 5.5%, way outpacing inflation. Taxes have NOT been slashed.

 

[Spartanmack]

Here I will answer it another way.

Elizabeth Warren would make a great President.
I am sure she is smarter then Clinton but probably could not beat her in a general election

Is that better kid?

She may be smarter than Clinton, but she is still an idiot. And she would make a horrible president.

 

[Michchamp]

You called me dumb... *insert long pointless rant*

 

[grandy]

All I'm hearing is who would make a horrible president.... Who would make a good one? Certainly not anyone in this crop, from either party.

 

[Gulo Blue]

All I'm hearing is who would make a horrible president.... Who would make a good one? Certainly not anyone in this crop, from either party.

The process weeds out those types.

 

[TheVictors]

Vegas likes Clinton ...by a wide margin.

You like dark horses..? $1000 on Joe Biden pays at 33/1!

http://www.ibtimes.com/hillary-clin...sidential-election-include-bush-rubio-1721042

 

[TheVictors]

All I'm hearing is who would make a horrible president.... Who would make a good one? Certainly not anyone in this crop, from either party.

I haven't voted for a major party candidate in the Pres race in yrs outside voting for Obama in 2008

 

[Sbee]

Bernie Sanders joining the race as a democrat, good to see that, at least Clinton will be challenged and he'll bring up issues that need to be addressed. I always liked Sanders and what he stood for, don't know enough about him personally to say that he's qualified for the job but it's a good move for him to get in the race.