2013 HOF Ballot

[tycobb420]

Why not start thinking about next January??

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2013.shtml

 

[tycobb420]

If I could vote: Morris, Bagwell, Lee Smith, Tram, McGriff (changed my mind), Piazza, Biggio, Schilling. No to McGwire, Clemens, Bonds. I am on the fence on Raines.

 

[mattym]

Bonds, pre-roids, was twice as good as any player on your list.

 

[tycobb420]

Bonds, pre-roids, was twice as good as any player on your list.

He cheated. Therefore, no HOF vote, if I had it. Same as Palmeiro, McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc.

 

[mattym]

What MLB rule did he break?

 

[tycobb420]

What MLB rule did he break?

That is an assinine argument. PEDs were against the law. What Bonds and the others did was violate the integrity of the game and you know it. It is on par with throwing games by changing the competitive balance.

 

[mattym]

Just out of curiosity, when Pudge Rodriguez or Gary Sheffield hit home runs for the Tigers, did you cheer, or did you stay silent out of respect for the integrity of the game?

 

[tycobb420]

Just out of curiosity, when Pudge Rodriguez or Gary Sheffield hit home runs for the Tigers, did you cheer, or did you stay silent out of respect for the integrity of the game?

Did you cheer for Casey Anthony?

 

[mattym]

I guess Bonds will just have to be content with the knowledge that those 8 guys you listed jack themselves blind every night dreaming they were half as good as him.

 

[jimrice]

I don't know how anyone can support Lee Smith. He is the picture of average closer. Sure he had longevity, but was never dominant (maybe 1 season). And he has no post season success.

478 saves
103 blown saves

His save percentage is 82%.



My case for Raines is that he has the highest OBP of any player not in at .385. Not counting the ineligible players.

Bagwell is a top ten all time 1st baseman. If he was clean, I'm not sure what the hold up is.

Piazza

Trammell

Edgar Martinez

 

[tycobb420]

I guess Bonds will just have to be content with the knowledge that those 8 guys you listed jack themselves blind every night dreaming they were half as good as him.

or that they played clean while he cheated and is in the same category as the 1919 Black Sox or Art Schliester or that some people are too stupid to recognize legit and illegit statistical performance....and that many of them were winning ballplayers while Bonds was not

 

[mattym]

When you say winning players, do you mean World Series titles, players who got it done in the postseason?

If so, I agree, those players are much better than ringless playoff chokers like Barry Bonds and Ty Cobb.

 

[tycobb420]

When you say winning players, do you mean World Series titles, players who got it done in the postseason?

If so, I agree, those players are much better than ringless playoff chokers like Barry Bonds and Ty Cobb.

Cobb never told his teammates they needed to win without him. Bonds did.

You don't put Capone on Mount Rushmore. The writer's will probably punish him for his PED usage...then they'll turn into pussies like the Bonds supporters and vote him in on the 2nd or 3rd ballot.

 

[mattym]

The hypocrisy is just mind-boggling. You've got the baseball writers, who in 1998 waxed poetic about how wonderful it was that McGwire and Sosa were bringing the sport back; now, they've tossed those columns down the memory hole and have appointed themselves judge and jury over an entire era of baseball. How many Beantown writers won't vote for Bonds? I wonder if it's the same number who think the Sox should give back their two World Series titles because their two most prominent hitters were 'roid users.

You've got the fans, who in the late 1990s and early 2000s went to the stadium in droves and dug the long ball. Now, miraculously, the only fans you can find are of the "I didn't get caught up in that era, I was suspicious the whole time" variety. They prattle on about the sanctity of the game, the same sanctimonious game that had a World Series cancelled because of greed, the same sanctimonious game that was whites-only for over 75 years. And, to this day, you've got fans who still cheer PED users who hit home runs, as long as those home runs add to the run total of the team they root for.

Then you have the MLB owners and officials, who during the 1990s saw no evil, heard no evil, and spoke no evil as the cash rolled in. Then, when public opinion changed, only then did they get off their asses to do something, and now blather on about how they've finally got it right.

I agree with you--Bonds will be voted in someday. And when he is, I hope he calls a press conference, tells the hypocritical baseball writers to go fuck themselves, and tells the hypocritical MLB officials to shove their Cooperstown plaque up their ass. The Hall of Fame's become a joke anyway. Let the fans go there and admire all the monuments of the players who were better than Bonds, like Andre Dawson and Ron Santo.

 

[biggunsbob]

I have no idea how to include the steroids era with the hall of fame. Funny thing about Bonds is his numbers would have been good enough without the stuff. I just know that if Tinker, and Evers are in the HOF so should Trammell and Whitaker... I think Morris should be in to but Alan and Lou better get in some day...

 

[thehippo73]

What MLB rule did he break?

In 1991, MLB banned performance enhancing drugs. But the was no testing or penalties in place.