2016 Tigers

[Sbee]

question for the board

Do you think the Tigers overachieved or underachieved this year based on the roster we had in ST and injuries we faced? Simple question, please provide some justification.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Underachieved. We had a $200mil payroll and couldn't even land a WC spot. We had a healthy JV and healthy Miggy to anchor the rotation and lineup. That's WAY more than most any other team has to start with, and that's before you mention Kinsler, JD, VMart, Upton (who was rather disappointing for most of the year), KRod, Zimmerman (another disappointment), etc. I saw a number of games where piss poor management cost us a win, and that's tough to swallow when you wind up a game or two short of the playoffs. Even tougher to swallow when they bring that manager back for another try... twice.

 

[tomdalton22]

I think they over achieved. I thought they were going to be a .500 baseball team and they were 86-75.

On opening day this was their rotation and projected lineup.

JV
Sanchez
Zimmerman
Pelfrey
Green

Kinsler
Upton
Miggy
Victor
JD
Nick
McCann
Iggy
Gose

 

[byco42]

Every AL team above league average (7) in OPS made the playoffs except for DET and SEA. SP, 1B and 2B ONLY positions to register positive (Wins Above Average) WAA -- total of 10.2. Team net of 2.8. So all the other positions were -7.4 WAA. None lower than -1.3 (RF) ... so the verdict vs. expectations to me is underachieve, especially with a MGR that was -2 or -3 IMO net in influencing game outcome.

Death by a cumulative 1,000 swings at bad pitches, base-running errors, bullpen failures, et.al. ... one of the most frustrating campaigns in a while.

 

[biggunsbob]

And just think if the team had better outfield defense , and could run the bases and play fundemetal baseball my guess is the make the playoffs easy. OH Yeah I Forgot A MANAGER has nothing to do with lineups, or strategy or basic baseball 101. Team should have coasted to at least wildcard.. They certainly underachieved.

 

[Mitchrapp]

They were competing until the end. That's better than many other teams.. payroll aside, they were pretty awesome.

 

[tomdalton22]

And just think I'd the team had better outfield defense , and could run the bases and play fundemetal baseball my guess is the make the playoffs easy. OH Yeah I Forgot A MANAGER has nothing to do with lineups, or strategy or basic baseball 101. Team should have coasted to at least wildcard.. They certainly underachieved.

but this was your thought on the team just before the season started.

Yeah this team is very un-exciting and I just do not see this team over. 500.
Hope I am Wrong BECAUSE I Love Tiger Baseball! !!!

 

[tomdalton22]

This was from the season preview thread.

From SI.com: http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/23/detroit-tigers-season-preview

Prediction is 80-82 and a third place finish. They call Justin Upton overrated, and James McCann underrated.

 

[biggunsbob]

but this was your thought on the team just before the season started.

So what. They had a golden opportunity to get the WC and failed. If brad had paid attention to the details like a good manager should they would have been better. Way to much wasted money on this team which the GM should take the blame for.
AA and Brad are in over thier heads.

 

[Sbee]

Every AL team above league average (7) in OPS made the playoffs except for DET and SEA. SP, 1B and 2B ONLY positions to register positive (Wins Above Average) WAA -- total of 10.2. Team net of 2.8. So all the other positions were -7.4 WAA. None lower than -1.3 (RF) ... so the verdict vs. expectations to me is underachieve, especially with a MGR that was -2 or -3 IMO net in influencing game outcome.

Death by a cumulative 1,000 swings at bad pitches, base-running errors, bullpen failures, et.al. ... one of the most frustrating campaigns in a while.

OPS correlation to wins is significant. but you can do the inverse as well.

Detroit was 9th in the AL in quality starts, 4 of the top 5 made the playoffs, the only outlier was baltimore who hit 253 HR's.

I think combining both of those stats really gives you the story of the season. The tigers were above average in run creation and below average in run prevention.

 

[Sbee]

So what. They had a golden opportunity to get the WC and failed. If brad had paid attention to the details like a good manager should they would have been better. Way to much wasted money in this team which the GM should take the blame for.
AA and Brad are in over thier heads.

I'd say AA is in over his head way more than Ausmus, considering the guy considered it appropriate to sign Mike Pelfrey for not one, but two years coming off the seasons he's had. That significantly handicapped the team from winning games much more than any perception of mismanagement did. The season was salvaged by the deals that DD made in 2015. The emergence of starting pitching from the previous deadline deals was really the reason why we weren't in 4th or 5th place this year. For that reason, i'd say we slightly overachieved given the roster makeup and injuries we sustained.

 

[biggunsbob]

I agree AA is in over his head over Brad . But he should not get a pass for some of the dumb decisions he's made all season in my opinion.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Baseball must be tough for you guys if you're this frustrated when they miss the playoffs. Surprised you made it through the 90's. Or the 70's.

 

[tomdalton22]

So what. They had a golden opportunity to get the WC and failed. If brad had paid attention to the details like a good manager should they would have been better. Way to much wasted money on this team which the GM should take the blame for.
AA and Brad are in over thier heads.

This was the question in the thread

question for the board

Do you think the Tigers overachieved or underachieved this year based on the roster we had in ST and injuries we faced? Simple question, please provide some justification.

before the start of the season you said you couldn't see them being over .500

Therefore, you think they overachieved, when you consider the question that was asked.

 

[byco42]

Baseball must be tough for you guys if you're this frustrated when they miss the playoffs. Surprised you made it through the 90's. Or the 70's.

1968 to 2005: Four post-season appearances.

2006 to 2016: Five post-season appearances. Expectations are king.

 

[Sbee]

Baseball must be tough for you guys if you're this frustrated when they miss the playoffs. Surprised you made it through the 90's. Or the 70's.

2006 made Tiger fans much less objective. Not as much the guys on this board since they've been following the team forever and we were discussing this team on ESPN in the late 90's but overall with the 97.1 crowd. There's a mentality that because just about everyone played baseball on some level that they know more than the major league manager. They tend to think that because a high school coach got into kids faces that would work on the ML level, etc.

In some ways, it was better to be a tiger fan before them, in a lot of ways it was worse, but better in some. Kind of like a local restaurant that you love that gets a good write up in the news and the it's crawling with assholes.

 

[Sbee]

I agree AA is in over his head over Brad . But he should not get a pass for some of the dumb decisions he's made all season in my opinion.

Should brad get credit for the good decisions he's made?

This discussion being all about Ausmus begs the question, what role do the players have in the performance of the team? They seem to be immune from criticism or at least get less than the manager.

 

[Mitchrapp]

2006 made Tiger fans much less objective. Not as much the guys on this board since they've been following the team forever and we were discussing this team on ESPN in the late 90's but overall with the 97.1 crowd. There's a mentality that because just about everyone played baseball on some level that they know more than the major league manager. They tend to think that because a high school coach got into kids faces that would work on the ML level, etc.

In some ways, it was better to be a tiger fan before them, in a lot of ways it was worse, but better in some. Kind of like a local restaurant that you love that gets a good write up in the news and the it's crawling with assholes.

2006 was so great for me, comparative to'84, because it was just a surprise season. The whole season was fantastic.. every day. Now the expectations are high, including the payroll, and frustration galore. I loved the Tigers in the 70's even know they stunk for much of it.

I guess that what happens when you have some success. Almost not as fun.

 

[byco42]

The 70's had the vestiges of the 68 team that lasted into 1980. John Hiller was the last active player who played on the '68 team. I still remember he was highly effective in 1978. The emergence of the players who would culminate in '84, The Bird, LeFlore, Staub, Wockenfuss, Alex Johnson, Jerry Morales's promenade around the bases when he hit (not many) HRs ... perhaps my favorite decade of following Tiger baseball.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The 70's had the vestiges of the 68 team that lasted into 1980. John Hiller was the last active player who played on the '68 team. I still remember he was highly effective in 1978. The emergence of the players who would culminate in '84, The Bird, LeFlore, Staub, Wockenfuss, Alex Johnson, Jerry Morales's promenade around the bases when he hit (not many) HRs ... perhaps my favorite decade of following Tiger baseball.

You just skipped Tom Veryzer.. I actually was a fan of his. But I did like the players you mentioned.. Bird was future Cy Young stud. LeFlore left too early, Staub choked upon his bat like no one's business and of course Wockenfuss batting stance. Then soon after the young studs: Tram, Lou, Parrish, Gibby, Morris, Petry and a ton more. Best-most home grown in Tigers' history.