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2019 BBWAA elects Edgar Martinez, Roy Halladay, Mike Mussina, Mariano Rivera

kalinecountry

kalinecountry

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https://www.mlb.com/video/hof-election-announcement/c-2522057783
HOF Election Announcement.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...laday-mike-mussina-elected-baseball-hall-fame
Mariano Rivera, Edgar Martinez, Roy Halladay and Mike Mussina joining Hall of Fame.
espn

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019...nez-mike-mussina-elected-to-hall-of-fame.html
Mariano Rivera, Roy Halladay, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina Elected To Hall Of Fame.
MLBTR

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25769556/2019-hall-famers-numbers
2019 Hall of Famers by the numbers.
espn

https://www.mlive.com/expo/sports/g...all-of-fame-complete-results-vote-totals.html
4 players elected to Baseball Hall of Fame: Complete results, vote totals.
Mlive

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...laday-edgar-martinez-mike-mussina/2649903002/
Mariano Rivera, Roy Halladay, Edgar Martinez and Mike Mussina elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Freep

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...rtinez-mike-mussina-baseball-hall/2651256002/
Mariano Rivera joins Roy Halladay, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina in Baseball Hall of Fame.
Detnews

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...lladay-almost-were-detroit-tigers/2651266002/
Two of the soon-to-be-HOFers almost were #Tigers.
#Yankees floated Mariano Rivera to Detroit for David Wells in 1990s.
#BlueJays wanted Rick Porcello and Ryan Perry for Roy Halladay in 2000s.

https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-fame-class-of-2019/c-302988924
Mo (Unanimous!), Edgar, Doc, Moose elected to HOF.
MLB.com

https://www.mlb.com/news/13-historic-moments-in-mariano-riveras-career/c-302978786
Mo's career filled with record-breaking memories.
MLB.com

https://www.mlb.com/news/edgar-martinez-top-11-mariners-moments/c-302997696
The 11 moments that helped Edgar to the Hall.
MLB.com

https://www.mlb.com/news/roy-halladays-10-greatest-baseball-moments/c-260906826
Halladay's 10 greatest performances on the hill.
MLB.com

https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-famer-mike-mussinas-career-highlights/c-303002702
Near-perfection among Moose's many highlights.
MLB.com

https://www.mlb.com/news/one-and-dones-on-the-2019-hall-of-fame-ballot/c-303003224
16 players are one and done on '19 HOF ballot.
MLB.com

https://www.mlb.com/news/previewing-2020-baseball-hall-of-fame-voting/c-303004224
Jeter headlines new additions to '20 HOF ballot.
Walker faces final year of eligibility after big increase this year.
MLB.com

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2...ussina-mariano-rivera-schilling-bonds-clemens
Roy Halladay, Edgar Martinez, Mike Mussina, and Mariano Rivera are inducted into the Hall of Fame.
Two great starters of different eras, a designated hitter, and the greatest closer ever are inducted.
BeyondTheBoxscore

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/history-for-the-hall-with-unanimity-and-another-quartet/
History for the Hall with Unanimity, and Another Quartet.
Fangraphs
 
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Halladay and on first ballot? While J.Morris had to wait forever.
 
Maybe because he died.. 203 wins is a but weak imo. If his ERA was maybe a half run lower I might say okay.
 
How can those who want Bonds and Clemens in so badly not want Manny Ramirez or Sammy Sosa in? I never hear of the latter half in this debate, it’s always seemingly exclusively the first two. Pure numbers wise it’s not even a debate all 4 are worthy. But the votes and discussion only centers around Bonds and Clemens, I’ve never understood it.
 
Sorry, but Roy Halladay was not worthy of HoF, IMHO. It now makes it certain that Verlander should be a HoFer without pitching another season. Match the two, item by item, and Verlander has the slight edge and I still believe Verlander needs a couple more good seasons to be considered.
 
#Yankees floated Mariano Rivera to Detroit for David Wells in 1990s.

I hadn't realized that. That would have been awesome.
 
I had forgotten about Halladay’s death in a plane crash. His numbers are just not good enough in my opinion. I have no issues with the others. Mussiina was a work horse
 
Wins don't count as much as in years past.
The voters are looking at WAR Wins Above Replacement and other SABR friendly stats.

There is, I believe, a younger group of voters, who watched Bonds and Clemens and are also more forgiving for players who cheated, at least the two biggest names, it is probably going to happen as much as I personally don't want any of them in the HOF.
There is a big difference imo, regarding the argument of players from the 50's and 60's who I grew up with cheated with amphetamines. The "greenies" gave a player energy, a more awake feeling like 10 cups of coffee. Whereas, the steroid/PED using players, got stronger, grew muscles ad their heads, see bonds, and were able to hit the baseball farther.

Some of you reading this might agree with my feeling, others won't and wouldn't mind seeing bonds, clemens, and other alleged users and caught users enshrined. Opinions are like rear ends, everybody has one.
 
IMHO, different eras in baseball cannot be compared. The Polo Grounds had a 504 foot CF, in fact, most parks in that era had large Centerfields. Hence why there were more Triples. Mound heights, benefiting the pitcher, were lowered after 1968 season, the year of the pitcher. The field itself is as best as one would want, compared to the hard, uneven infields of the past. Gloves earlier were the size of winter mittens, compared to the Lacrosse wickets of today. Bats were most of ash and now are maple. As the playing conditions and equipment has improved, fielding percentage for example have changed.

MLB FPCT
2018 = .984 FPCT
1998 = .981 FPCT
1978 = .978 FPCT
1958 = .978 FPCT
1938 = .971 FPCT
1918 = .964 FPCT
1898 = .942 FPCT


1941 CF (Williams .406 BAVG)

AL Parks
BOS = 389
SLB = 422
WSH = 426
CHW = 440
CLE = 450
DET = 450
NYY = 461
PHA = 468

NL Parks
CIN = 387
CHC = 400
BRO = 400
BSN = 401
STL = 422
PIT = 435
PHI = 468
NYG = 505

1941 had 3x NY teams, 2x Boston, 2x St. Louis, 2x Chicago, and 2x Philadelphia teams. The Philadelphia teams both played at Shibe Park.

Now, as far as PED. My suspicion (no proof) is that there is already PED users in the HoF. If that is the case, what is the standard of proof? To my knowledge, except for allegations, there is no hard evidence proving certain players are guilty. O.J. Simpson was never found guilty in a criminal trial. We all have our opinions as to his guilt, but for the record, he was innocent of the criminal charges. Right, wrong or indifferent, I believe more voters are coming to this realization. I am all for keeping "known" PED users from the HoF. I am on the fence concerning the others. But I certainly do not want the HoF to drop the character and integrity clause. If you do that, then Pete Rose is in. And despite his numbers, I am not one in favor of Pete Rose's inclusion. Shoeless Joe should make the HoF before Rose sniffs the stairs.
 
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The thing about Shoeless Joe vs Rose is Joe bet on, or at least was aware, for his team to lose. Doesn't matter that he played well or actually didn't receive any money. Not sure that's any better than what Rose did.

Plus, though he had impressive numbers less so as more time goes by when you think about the era he played in not sure he deserves to be in just based on stats.
 
For position players, generally a player gets into the HoF if they have a very good 7-year WAR. There are exceptions, but that is a general guideline.


Since 1950, here is who hasn't made it that was in the top 10 during a 7-year window. Last person for each 7-years is the next person no to make it out of the top 10.




1950-1957 = Minnie Minoso at 11th
1955-1962 = Ken Boyer 8th, Rocky Colavito 9th, Minnie Minoso 11th
1960-1967 = Norm Cash 11th
1965-1972 = Dick Allen 6th, Pete Rose 11th
1970-1977 = Pete Rose 3rd, Craig Nettles 4th, Bobby Bonds 7th, Sal Bando 8th, Reggie Smith 9th, Cesar Cedeno 11th
1975-1982 = Ron Cey 4th, George Foster 6th, Buddy Bell 8th, Bobby Grich 9th, Fred Lynn 10th, Ted Simmons 11th
1980-1987 = Keith Hernandez 5th, Dale Murphy 9th, Dwight Evans 14th (Trammell was 7th)
1985-1992 = Barry Bonds 3rd, Andy Van Slyke 9th, Lou Whitaker 11th
1990-1997 = Barry Bonds 1st, Rafael Palmiero 9th, Larry Walker 10th, Mark McGwire 11th
1995-2002 = Barry Bonds 1st, Alex Rodriguez 2nd, Sammy Sosa 5th, Manny Ramirez 11th


2000-2007 = Pujols 3rd is only active player. Only Chipper Jones got HoF. Aside from Bonds and A-Rod, no one else in the top 11 not tied to PEDs have come close to being elected.
2005-2012 = Mostly active players. Cabrera = 3rd, Granderson = 9th
 
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