4 Rabbis arrested on kidnapping charges

[Michchamp]

... and no that's not the first line of a joke.

Crazy stuff (link):

Four Orthodox Jewish rabbis and one of their sons were indicted on Thursday on charges of kidnapping Jewish men and violently forcing them to grant divorces to their unhappy wives, New Jersey authorities said on Thursday.

Between 2009 and 2013, the rabbis - Mendel Epstein, Martin Wolmark, Binyamin Stimler and Jay Goldstein, who also went by "Yaakov" - kidnapped or tried to kidnap men and torture them with beatings and stun guns until they agreed to divorce their wives, according to the indictment filed in New Jersey federal court by U.S. Attorney Paul Fishman.

Orthodox Jewish women cannot get a divorce unless their husbands consent through a document known as a "get." Experts say such kidnapping schemes are responses to so-called "get abuse," in which husbands demand a larger share of the couple's communal property before granting the divorce.​

 

[zyxt9]

those husbands should just plain old be killed off. the things they do to their wives and then refuse to allow the divorce, just sick individuals.

I don't blame the rabbis one bit, and if I'm on the jury I would find them innocent due to the circumstances by which they acted. it was less kidnapping and more trying to right a wrong...but killing the bastards would have made the world better IMO.

have no use for "men" who treat women the way these types do.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Those husbands should be made to be alter boys for the next 20 years.

 

[Michchamp]

those husbands should just plain old be killed off. the things they do to their wives and then refuse to allow the divorce, just sick individuals.

...

how do you know what they do? the article just said they refused to grant divorces to their wives until they got a bigger share of the marital property in the divorce decree.

 

[Thumb]

those husbands should just plain old be killed off. the things they do to their wives and then refuse to allow the divorce, just sick individuals.

I don't blame the rabbis one bit, and if I'm on the jury I would find them innocent due to the circumstances by which they acted. it was less kidnapping and more trying to right a wrong...but killing the bastards would have made the world better IMO.

have no use for "men" who treat women the way these types do.

Is just killing people off any solution at all? Between this and the Ukraine sniper/Molotov thing, you really seem like a bloodthirsty guy, ya' know?

 

[Monster]

Anyone know what the husbands did? Were they abusive or were the wives just unhappy?

 

[Michchamp]

Is just killing people off any solution at all? Between this and the Ukraine sniper/Molotov thing, you really seem like a bloodthirsty guy, ya' know?

I just wondered if he had more information. The article only said these were cases where the husband was holding out for a better share of the divorce settlement.

Knowing how acrimonious divorces can be, and how actions which look trivial to casual observers become "crimes against humanity" when the other spouse views them, it seems crazy to me for other parties to get so involved in divorce that they kidnap/torture one party, but... this is in the context of a religious dispute, so ... yeah. Religions are crazy, man!

 

[zyxt9]

if you do not understand how A FEW of the extreme Orthodox men treat their women, then look into it and then tell me these pricks don't deserve worse. these few treat their wives like property, often having married much younger and very impressionable women who were married off in an agreement instead of finding an actual love. then they are immediately impregnated and as soon as the child is born are impregnated again. they are very rarely allowed outside of the house by themselves.

there is zero reason these women should be denied a Get, except that their asshole husbands view them as property and know they will never be allowed to be remarried in the eyes of Judaism without their husband granting the Get or dying. let them die, IMO.

sorry if you find that to be too bloodthirsty to your liking, I call them like I see them.

 

[zyxt9]

modern day legal slave owners if that puts it into perspective for any confused by previous post

 

[Michchamp]

Your views are... extreme , to put it mildly.

if I were a member of that religion, I would solve the problem by proposing some sort of non-violent way to obtain a get in the event one spouse refuses. Maybe have 5-6 members of the community vote, in the event a get is not forthcoming.

But then again... logic and reason are not really compatible with an organized religion, so it appears there is no easy solution for them.

 

[zyxt9]

Your views are... extreme , to put it mildly.

if I were a member of that religion, I would solve the problem by proposing some sort of non-violent way to obtain a get in the event one spouse refuses. Maybe have 5-6 members of the community vote, in the event a get is not forthcoming.

But then again... logic and reason are not really compatible with an organized religion, so it appears there is no easy solution for them.

that is EXACTLY the problem. these are the type who fully believe the Torah (Old Testament) laws apply today, though things like stoning to death are frowned upon. still the old ideas of BUYING your wife and then keeping her barefoot, pregnant, and toeing the line at all times with consequences are what A FEW of these guys do.

don't get me wrong, as I said the vast majority of the men are great husbands and fathers with very loving sides and their wives are very happy. but these few who refuse to allow Gets are typically the type who are saying "she is MY PROPERTY because I bought her and regardless of how miserable she is and emotionally abused, and physically abused at times, that's too bad".

like I said, modern day legalized slavery. any woman in that situation who commits murder or hires a hitman should be found innocent due to the situation. there is no reasoning with these extremists who obviously took things too far. over 95% of the time this is NOT the case, but these few go too far. even the rabbi's who are trying to help the woman through every possible means BEFORE kidnapping the man reach their wits end and have compassion for the woman, which is why they go to the extreme of kidnapping these guys.

no, the kidnapping (nor killing) of these types should never have to happen, but some guys are just too extreme. anyone in these women's spot would fully condone the kidnapping, because they don't want to actually have to resort to murder, but the kidnapping doesn't actually influence some of these extremists (while many do actually come to their senses) so what alternative does a woman have in such conditions than murder?

well, I guess she could commit suicide. they've been abused enough they probably would find that to be a preferred resolution, but IMO the husbands are the ones who deserve death, not the wives.

 

[Thumb]

if you do not understand how A FEW of the extreme Orthodox men treat their women, then look into it and then tell me these pricks don't deserve worse. these few treat their wives like property, often having married much younger and very impressionable women who were married off in an agreement instead of finding an actual love. then they are immediately impregnated and as soon as the child is born are impregnated again. they are very rarely allowed outside of the house by themselves.

there is zero reason these women should be denied a Get, except that their asshole husbands view them as property and know they will never be allowed to be remarried in the eyes of Judaism without their husband granting the Get or dying. let them die, IMO.

sorry if you find that to be too bloodthirsty to your liking, I call them like I see them.

It's been proven time and time again that death/killing solves very little. The death penalty is not a deterrent at all in states where it's used. Yet people always jump to the idea that putting people to death solves something.

Our civilization is no more evolved than it was during the days of the Roman Empire if we keep assuming that taking a life, any life, is ever a solution to anything.

 

[zyxt9]

It's been proven time and time again that death/killing solves very little. The death penalty is not a deterrent at all in states where it's used. Yet people always jump to the idea that putting people to death solves something.

Our civilization is no more evolved than it was during the days of the Roman Empire if we keep assuming that taking a life, any life, is ever a solution to anything.

what part of this do you not get?

these men treat their wives like BEFORE the Roman Empire even existed.

a "majority vote" to honor the Get means squat, the man still OWNS his wife. this isn't the US legal system we are discussing, it is Torah law, religious law, which actually supercedes US law in this situation. you are trying to apply modern solutions to people living like it is 3000 BCE when it comes to marriage. the wife cannot even go into hiding equivalent to Protective Custody and create a new life, because in her world that does not change the fact she is actually still married, not to mention the multiple kids issue.

you may think there is a simplistic solution to this problem, but there isn't. slavery required a freaking Civil War with more American casualties than all other US involved wars combined, but in your world it should have just been handled without a single shot fired. while that would have been nice, REALITY is far different from your dream world of peaceful resolutions. not saying it is wrong to hope or wish for peaceful solutions, but sometimes the extremists prevent such peaceful solutions. and make no mistake, these guys are extremists.

 

[Thumb]

What part don't you get? I don't give a fuck the reason behind it, I'm calling you a bloodthirsty bastard for always wanted to see someone dead as a solution.

...but killing the bastards would have made the world better IMO.

This right here is the part, and the only part, I'm talking about.

 

[zyxt9]

What part don't you get? I don't give a fuck the reason behind it, I'm calling you a bloodthirsty bastard for always wanted to see someone dead as a solution.



This right here is the part, and the only part, I'm talking about.

and I stand by that comment. you have zero understanding of the situation.

for instance, did you know that up until the husband signs the Get, he can perform legalized rape to his wife without consequence? that's right, all she can do is take it.

 

[Thumb]

and I stand by that comment. you have zero understanding of the situation.

for instance, did you know that up until the husband signs the Get, he can perform legalized rape to his wife without consequence? that's right, all she can do is take it.

I understand the situation. ZERO FUCKS ARE GIVEN.

That does not mean just killing someone is a solution, nor am I offering an alternative.

You are either very simple minded, or you are overthinking everything I'm posting.

 

[Michchamp]

It's been proven time and time again that death/killing solves very little. The death penalty is not a deterrent at all in states where it's used. Yet people always jump to the idea that putting people to death solves something.

Our civilization is no more evolved than it was during the days of the Roman Empire if we keep assuming that taking a life, any life, is ever a solution to anything.

Kinda reminds me of the Norm MacDonald quote:

"Some say living well is the best revenge. But stabbing works too."

 

[biggunsbob]

These guys sound like real dicks.. I have no use for men who abuse women and children.

 

[zyxt9]

Kinda reminds me of the Norm MacDonald quote:

"Some say living well is the best revenge. But stabbing works too."

LOL...almost did a spit take with my beer, but thankfully saved it...thanks for that element of levity champ!

 

[zyxt9]

I understand the situation. ZERO FUCKS ARE GIVEN.

That does not mean just killing someone is a solution, nor am I offering an alternative.

You are either very simple minded, or you are overthinking everything I'm posting.

fair enough, I get your position and though disagree I will respect it.