AL MVP Debate still going on...

[doncaruana]

There's a lot of chatter still about this. I personally get tired of listening to how Mike Trout is basically the 2nd coming.

I put this together and wanted to share it. If you, like me, are out there defending the Tigers' against a lot of these folks, feel free to use it.

15 reasons why Miguel Cabrera is without question the AL MVP

And, of course, any feedback is welcome. Just found this place - looks fun.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

I'm fine with the results either way.

I would think what Miggy did would be enough to push him ahead of Trout but I see the school of thought in that Trout plays plus defense at a very important position. I think Cabrera making the selfless move back to third and playing it better than most would've expected should count for something but at this point it's up for opinion.

Either player would've taken the MVP in a landslide vote in most seasons.

 

[tomdalton22]

There's a lot of chatter still about this. I personally get tired of listening to how Mike Trout is basically the 2nd coming.

I put this together and wanted to share it. If you, like me, are out there defending the Tigers' against a lot of these folks, feel free to use it.

15 reasons why Miguel Cabrera is without question the AL MVP

And, of course, any feedback is welcome. Just found this place - looks fun.

I'm sure an Angels fan could write just as biased article in Trout's favor. Both were great but I would vote for Cabrera.

 

[motown1958]

I am not a fan of sabermetrics so to me your article hit the nail on the head. Trout had a tremendous season which was really accentuated by his being a rookie. Late in the season he was more of an average player. I truly believe that the triple crown trumps sabermetrics and actual numbers mean more in the game of baseball.

 

[mjsb2]

I am not a fan of sabermetrics so to me your article hit the nail on the head. Trout had a tremendous season which was really accentuated by his being a rookie. Late in the season he was more of an average player. I truly believe that the triple crown trumps sabermetrics and actual numbers mean more in the game of baseball.

wOBA is no less of a real number than HRs, RBIs, and BA.

 

[mjsb2]

There's a lot of chatter still about this. I personally get tired of listening to how Mike Trout is basically the 2nd coming.

I put this together and wanted to share it. If you, like me, are out there defending the Tigers' against a lot of these folks, feel free to use it.

15 reasons why Miguel Cabrera is without question the AL MVP

And, of course, any feedback is welcome. Just found this place - looks fun.

Your argument against defense is very poor.

Your attempt to devalue Trouts baserunning advantage is laughable.

Your argument about WAR being about runs scored, and thus overvaluing leadoff hitters, shows that you really don't understand WAR, and, with that being the case, you should not write about it.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Here we go, now the Sabermetrics jaggoffs will start trying to say no one else understands WAR, like no one else has gone to the fangraphs website and read about it either. Big whoop, some people have read about WAR, just go to the wikipedia page and read about it and you're an expert! Hell, no one can even agree what WAR is, there are several different definitions.

Cabrera was better than Trout at virtually every statistic for batting that there is and was 2nd to him in the couple that Trout lead. Trout was better on the basepaths and better in the field. Tells me that WAR probably overvalues steals and fielding.

 

[tomdalton22]

Here we go, now the Sabermetrics jaggoffs will start trying to say no one else understands WAR, like no one else has gone to the fangraphs website and read about it either. Big whoop, some people have read about WAR, just go to the wikipedia page and read about it and you're an expert! Hell, no one can even agree what WAR is, there are several different definitions.

Cabrera was better than Trout at virtually every statistic for batting that there is and was 2nd to him in the couple that Trout lead. Trout was better on the basepaths and better in the field. Tells me that WAR probably overvalues steals and fielding.

The thing that most people don't like about WAR is it gives more credit for offensive stats for different positions. If Miggy played catcher or 2B his WAR would be significantly higher because he would be SO much better offensively than any of his counterparts. Any way you look at it Miggy was better offensively and Trout was better on the basepaths and better defensively. The voters need to determine if the difference between their offensive numbers out weigh Trout's better base running & defense. I think it does.

 

[mjsb2]

Here we go, now the Sabermetrics jaggoffs will start trying to say no one else understands WAR, like no one else has gone to the fangraphs website and read about it either. Big whoop, some people have read about WAR, just go to the wikipedia page and read about it and you're an expert! Hell, no one can even agree what WAR is, there are several different definitions.

Cabrera was better than Trout at virtually every statistic for batting that there is and was 2nd to him in the couple that Trout lead. Trout was better on the basepaths and better in the field. Tells me that WAR probably overvalues steals and fielding.

lol

the guy said WAR is based off of runs scored...it doesn't even factor in runs scored.

And in terms of offensive numbers, Trout was pretty much even with Cabrera.

They were tied in wRC+, Cabrera had a .08 advantage in wOBA, and Cabrera had a .036 advantage in OPS. Trouts baserunning advantage makes up for those slim advantages, making them pretty even in term of offense produced.

People who believe Cabrera had a large offensive advantage are simply wrong.

In fact, the only reason you could argue Cabrera had a significant offensive advantage is because he had an extra 60 PA.

Cabreras offensive advantage is due to playing more games, but in terms of offensive efficiency, he had no significant advantage over Trout.

 

[tomdalton22]

lol

the guy said WAR is based off of runs scored...it doesn't even factor in runs scored.

And in terms of offensive numbers, Trout was pretty much even with Cabrera.

They were tied in wRC+, Cabrera had a .08 advantage in wOBA, and Cabrera had a .036 advantage in OPS. Trouts baserunning advantage more than makes up for those slim advantages.

People who believe Cabrera had a large offensive advantage are simply wrong.

In fact, the only reason you could argue Cabrera had an offensive advantage is because he had an extra 60 PA.

Cabreras offensive advantage is due to playing more games, but in terms of offensive efficiency, he had no significant advantage over Trout.

Playing in more games should be taken into consideration.

 

[mjsb2]

Playing in more games should be taken into consideration.

Agreed.

And that does give Cabrera an edge in terms of offensive value.

I'm just refuting the idea that he was far and away ahead of Trout offensively, because the only reason Trout isn't clearly ahead of Cabrera in terms of all around offensive value is because Cabrera has that advantage in games played.

 

[tomdalton22]

Agreed.

And that does give Cabrera an edge in terms of offensive value.

I'm just refuting the idea that he was far and away ahead of Trout offensively, because the only reason Trout isn't clearly ahead of Cabrera in terms of all around offensive value is because Cabrera has that advantage in games played.

I hear ya. I think Cabrera deserves it just because of his monster numbers and he got the triple crown which has not been done in 45 years....it's close though.

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

the sabermetric folks see this MVP debate as a validation of their train of thought..I definitely look at the advanced statistics in comparing players but the MVP vote is every bit a gut vote as it is statistical measurement. Probably trending more towards stats as advanced statistical analysis gains mainstream approval however.

With that said I fully expect a tiger fan to write a puff piece blowing up Cabrera...to that end I applaud the OP for making the effort whether you agree or not.

Welcome to the board.