Anyone think Administration will lose votes

[Michchamp]

and of course, the courts look at all the circumstances when they make these sort of distinctions...

the church can claim "HEY this is a catholic hospital!! We can do whatever the EFF we want here. Back off. However, please continue to allow medicare and medicaid coverage for operations and medications we proscribe, and allow us to use the municipal power grid, sewers, roads, send people here for emergency treatment, let us use the garbage dumps, etc. etc. But otherwise, keep your filthy sinful secular hands off us!!"

And the courts take a look and say, "Well, you're hiring and employing lay people for salaries; you hire outside of the faith, and advertise these jobs on monster.com, you accept payment for the services rendered here, etc. etc. You accept government funds for services performed, you use public health resources like every other hospital. So it sure looks like a regular old hospital to us. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, we have to call it a duck. Now STFU and obey the laws here."

 

[Thumb]

Feeding the hungry and caring for the sick are not outside the bounds of Catholicism. They are fundamental parts of the mission of the Catholic Church.

really? cause, I just looked at the nicene creed and it's not in there.

there's the beliefs, the sacraments, and all that jazz. nothing specific about healthcare or feeding anyone.

Oh Yeah? It says nothing about Abortion, Conception, or Divorce either.

Not all the beliefs and follows that are fundamental to the Catholic Church are in the Nicene Creed.

 

[TheVictors]

....Creator of Heaven and Earth. For all that is seen and unseen ...

 

[redandguilty]

and of course, the courts look at all the circumstances when they make these sort of distinctions...

the church can claim "HEY this is a catholic hospital!! We can do whatever the EFF we want here. Back off. However, please continue to allow medicare and medicaid coverage for operations and medications we proscribe, and allow us to use the municipal power grid, sewers, roads, send people here for emergency treatment, let us use the garbage dumps, etc. etc. But otherwise, keep your filthy sinful secular hands off us!!"

And the courts take a look and say, "Well, you're hiring and employing lay people for salaries; you hire outside of the faith, and advertise these jobs on monster.com, you accept payment for the services rendered here, etc. etc. You accept government funds for services performed, you use public health resources like every other hospital. So it sure looks like a regular old hospital to us. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, we have to call it a duck. Now STFU and obey the laws here."

LOL!! Now anyone that uses a road is giving up rights!

(I'll be back. I have to go FAX a report to the government. Can't believe they make me fax stuff. Then I will go get some beer. Then I'll weigh this argument against DC Universe online, which I started yesterday. For a free game, it looks pretty good.)

 

[Michchamp]

and of course, the courts look at all the circumstances when they make these sort of distinctions...

the church can claim "HEY this is a catholic hospital!! We can do whatever the EFF we want here. Back off. However, please continue to allow medicare and medicaid coverage for operations and medications we proscribe, and allow us to use the municipal power grid, sewers, roads, send people here for emergency treatment, let us use the garbage dumps, etc. etc. But otherwise, keep your filthy sinful secular hands off us!!"

And the courts take a look and say, "Well, you're hiring and employing lay people for salaries; you hire outside of the faith, and advertise these jobs on monster.com, you accept payment for the services rendered here, etc. etc. You accept government funds for services performed, you use public health resources like every other hospital. So it sure looks like a regular old hospital to us. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, we have to call it a duck. Now STFU and obey the laws here."

LOL!! Now anyone that uses a road is giving up rights!

meh. you missed the point.

focus on the walks like a duck and quacks like a duck line... that's the real analysis here. They can claim this is a tenet of their religion, and the courts don't really give a shit if it is or not, but if they're acting outside the scope of the religion, here as an employer under the statutory definition and scope of the law, which has been held to be a constitutionally valid protection of all workers in the United States, they must obey the laws. If they don't like it, they should stop acting as an employer.

It's just that simple.

or just go outside and look at ducks.

 

[redandguilty]

Also, hitting wikipedia links, it looks like the Catholic Church might take credit for developing hospital systems in the 1st place.

 

[Thumb]

You know what I wanna know...

When are we going to get tough on the AMISH!

I live in the Thumb (duh) and I can't throw a rock out a moving car window and not hit a goddamn horse and buggy most days, well some days, ok, maybe 1 day, but Amish people use roads, their horses shit all over in town (city street sweepers to action!) and they play the 2 sided card shit too.

They wont have a phone or own a car, but they use the payphones like mad, and call people for rides a lot, yet they are exempt from paying any taxes, all military service, yet if they get hit by a car (oops) they ride in the ambulance and get treated at the ER, then walk away without even glancing at a bill!

Now don't get me wrong, aside from the fact they smell like 100 day old B.O. and manure, they are generally pretty nice, they sell produce on the side of the road, which is sometimes worth what they charge for it, and bake some tasty breads and pies that they barter to the supermarket for other things.

The last time I was at an Amish farm, buying some produce because the supermarket stuff looked like dogshit imported from Mexico...oh wait, it was dogshit imported from Mexico, but back to the point...a teenage Amish girl manned the table and was so polite it almost made me forget to say horrible things about the acne she had, seriously it looked like she got a bad dose of nuclear radiation straight to her face.....Imaging the Chief Wahoo mascot with 10,000 little whiteheads....

So seriously, someone get me Obama's digits, I gotta let him know about what's happening with these Amish.

 

[Michchamp]

Also, hitting wikipedia links, it looks like the Catholic Church might take credit for developing hospital systems in the 1st place.

cool. I had my achilles' tendon surgically repaired at a catholic hospital, although the doctor who did it was Jewish.

not sure if the hospital is run for profit or not, but he (and the medical staff they employ) certainly do well for himself. Just built a nice home in the hills overlooking the Pacific Ocean in Orange Co.

and knowing what I do about the catholic church, I can't imagine they run any of these hospitals at a loss... quite possibly the church profits in some way financially, no?

 

[Michchamp]

You know what I wanna know...

When are we going to get tough on the AMISH!

I live in the Thumb (duh) and I can't throw a rock out a moving car window and not hit a goddamn horse and buggy most days, well some days, ok, maybe 1 day, but Amish people use roads, their horses shit all over in town (city street sweepers to action!) and they play the 2 sided card shit too.

They wont have a phone or own a car, but they use the payphones like mad, and call people for rides a lot, yet they are exempt from paying any taxes, all military service, yet if they get hit by a car (oops) they ride in the ambulance and get treated at the ER, then walk away without even glancing at a bill!

Now don't get me wrong, aside from the fact they smell like 100 day old B.O. and manure, they are generally pretty nice, they sell produce on the side of the road, which is sometimes worth what they charge for it, and bake some tasty breads and pies that they barter to the supermarket for other things.

The last time I was at an Amish farm, buying some produce because the supermarket stuff looked like dogshit imported from Mexico...oh wait, it was dogshit imported from Mexico, but back to the point...a teenage Amish girl manned the table and was so polite it almost made me forget to say horrible things about the acne she had, seriously it looked like she got a bad dose of nuclear radiation straight to her face.....Imaging the Chief Wahoo mascot with 10,000 little whiteheads....

So seriously, someone get me Obama's digits, I gotta let him know about what's happening with these Amish.

if you're gripe is with the amish, you might want to read Yoder vs Wisconsin. Your gripe is also going to be with the US Supreme Court.

 

[Thumb]

^^ yikes.

 

[TheVictors]

Sheperdize that shit, Champ!

 

[redandguilty]

Also, hitting wikipedia links, it looks like the Catholic Church might take credit for developing hospital systems in the 1st place.

cool. I had my achilles' tendon surgically repaired at a catholic hospital, although the doctor who did it was Jewish.

not sure if the hospital is run for profit or not, but he (and the medical staff they employ) certainly do well for himself. Just built a nice home in the hills overlooking the Pacific Ocean in Orange Co.

and knowing what I do about the catholic church, I can't imagine they run any of these hospitals at a loss... quite possibly the church profits in some way financially, no?

They're classified as nonprofit.

 

[redandguilty]

LOL!! Now anyone that uses a road is giving up rights!

meh. you missed the point.

focus on the walks like a duck and quacks like a duck line... that's the real analysis here. They can claim this is a tenet of their religion, and the courts don't really give a shit if it is or not, but if they're acting outside the scope of the religion, here as an employer under the statutory definition and scope of the law, which has been held to be a constitutionally valid protection of all workers in the United States, they must obey the laws. If they don't like it, they should stop acting as an employer.

It's just that simple.

or just go outside and look at ducks.

Well, clearly they're ducks, I mean employers, but does it follow that this part of the health care bill is a constitutionally valid protection? I thought there was already a challenge to the idea that insurance could be required for individuals.

 

[deathroh]

I finally realized why there hasn't been a post on the Michigan board in 2 hours...

 

[redandguilty]

...and it looks like what I posted before about the head of Catholic hospital supporting this stuff wasn't the whole picture. She supports Obamacare as a whole, but not this particular part of it.

 

[redandguilty]

I finally realized why there hasn't been a post on the Michigan board in 2 hours...

offseason -> off topic

 

[deathroh]

I finally realized why there hasn't been a post on the Michigan board in 2 hours...

offseason -> off topic

I need to make the Politics board part of my rotation again. I stopped checking it when tsmith7559 was making every other post.

 

[KAWDUP]

and of course, the courts look at all the circumstances when they make these sort of distinctions...

the church can claim "HEY this is a catholic hospital!! We can do whatever the EFF we want here. Back off. However, please continue to allow medicare and medicaid coverage for operations and medications we proscribe, and allow us to use the municipal power grid, sewers, roads, send people here for emergency treatment, let us use the garbage dumps, etc. etc. But otherwise, keep your filthy sinful secular hands off us!!"

And the courts take a look and say, "Well, you're hiring and employing lay people for salaries; you hire outside of the faith, and advertise these jobs on monster.com, you accept payment for the services rendered here, etc. etc. You accept government funds for services performed, you use public health resources like every other hospital. So it sure looks like a regular old hospital to us. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, we have to call it a duck. Now STFU and obey the laws here."

Actually they can claim they are a Catholic hospital, because they are.

Of course they have to follow labor laws. Duh!

If your conscience tells you one thing, and you are told do another by the state, you are allowed to object. Nothing is absolute.

There are exceptions in the law all over the God damn place, e.g. Obama Care, and just about any other behavioral law you want to mention, so quit giving me any crap about quacks like a duck.

That is BS.

 

[TheVictors]

offseason -> off topic

I need to make the Politics board part of my rotation again. I stopped checking it when tsmith7559 was making every other post.

So did I.

 

[Michchamp]

hmmm... nothing to refute in post #97, just an incoherent, angry-sounding rant.

anyways, looks like obama agreed to some sort of "compromise" which shifts some or all of the costs for actual birth control from the church-employers to the insurance companies.

I guess it makes everyone happy, except the insurance companies, for whom this will cut into their profit margins.

SO... the republicans boot the political football at Obama, and he boots it right back.