Anyone think Administration will lose votes

[KAWDUP]

Same thing he does all the time. Sweeping generalizations showing either ignorance or a jab. In either case the response was justified.

 

[Michchamp]

wait, KAWDUP are you trying to say they did NOT enable widespread child abuse by moving known molesters from parish to parish?

anyways, as long as it was just the Santorum of the world that was making a fuss here, I figured, you know "oh, it's an election season." But if the church is actually try to take the high ground and act like this morally offends them, shame on those hypocrites.

they need to shut up and go back to shaking down old ladies for their social security checks every sunday with scary stories about burning in hell for an eternal afterlife. They got a good scam going there.

 

[KAWDUP]

I knew eventually you would get down to blaming the Catholic church. Obviously they really did a number on you. I feel for you.

The issue is not really about that as I'm sure you know. It could have been any religion, but realize it isn't just the Catholic leadership that think the "compromise" is mostly just more BS, and it isn't just right wing nuts either.

You can keep dancing trying to avoid the real issue, if you like, but I saw through it this time. Nice try, though.

 

[Thumb]

Ha! Ha! LOL

Your reply - case in point?

Way to deflect.

His point still has merit.

 

[KAWDUP]

Ha! Ha! LOL

Your reply - case in point?

Way to deflect.

His point still has merit.

You mean what he said about the Catholic Bishops? Good for him. If that had any bearing on anything in this thread, I might actually agree, but it doesn't, so I actually don't think it has much use.

I know . . . go figure!

 

[redandguilty]

That's like saying you are fucking idiot because .1% of the people that post on this board are fucking idiots.

Good for you. Got any more stupid comments to add?

I bet you don't even get the correlation.

That analogy only applies if you mean that the other 99% of the board tried to cover for the 1% that are idiots.

This 99% covered for 1% idea is so terribly wrong. I'm a bit at a loss at how to respond. I'm not sure you can explain how someone would come to believe this with just bias. This looks like hate.

 

[redandguilty]

wait, KAWDUP are you trying to say they did NOT enable widespread child abuse by moving known molesters from parish to parish?

anyways, as long as it was just the Santorum of the world that was making a fuss here, I figured, you know "oh, it's an election season." But if the church is actually try to take the high ground and act like this morally offends them, shame on those hypocrites.

they need to shut up and go back to shaking down old ladies for their social security checks every sunday with scary stories about burning in hell for an eternal afterlife. They got a good scam going there.

"They" is just vague enough that you can waffle around and point your finger at everyone and then backpedal if anyone challenges you on it, but I think you're posting from a position of hate too.

 

[Michchamp]

I just think, you know, their grandstanding here about forcing them to violate the tenets of their religion is a bit over the top. They pick and choose when they want to really follow the teachings of christ and when they don't. And the whole prohibition against birth control is of course a much later interpretation just from some guy... it's not even strictly a tenet of their religion.

and here, I guess their goal is that if any of their lay employees wants birth control they have to pay for it out of their own pocket? even if the insurers are footing the cost at no charge to the church. that's shitty. hope more people start to wake up.

also clear they're playing for team GOP here.

 

[Michchamp]

wait, KAWDUP are you trying to say they did NOT enable widespread child abuse by moving known molesters from parish to parish?

anyways, as long as it was just the Santorum of the world that was making a fuss here, I figured, you know "oh, it's an election season." But if the church is actually try to take the high ground and act like this morally offends them, shame on those hypocrites.

they need to shut up and go back to shaking down old ladies for their social security checks every sunday with scary stories about burning in hell for an eternal afterlife. They got a good scam going there.

"They" is just vague enough that you can waffle around and point your finger at everyone and then backpedal if anyone challenges you on it, but I think you're posting from a position of hate too.

the same bishops who did that shit are still around. and it's not vague at all. still the same church. they allowed a significant number of priests to continually prey on kids for decades without it so much as testing their conscience. now... they want to get all hot and bothered over having to foot the bill for their civilian employees in non-church functions who may decide to go on birth control?

catholics seemed to have varying responses to it... from outright hostility to the accusers (blaming the victims), to trying to distance the church from its teachings and making peace with that. for me, after reading about the antics they pulled and the way they tried to defend it, and weasel out of it... yikes. that was the final nail in the coffin.

 

[redandguilty]

I just think, you know, their grandstanding here about forcing them to violate the tenets of their religion is a bit over the top. They pick and choose when they want to really follow the teachings of christ and when they don't. And the whole prohibition against birth control is of course a much later interpretation just from some guy... it's not even strictly a tenet of their religion.

and here, I guess their goal is that if any of their lay employees wants birth control they have to pay for it out of their own pocket? even if the insurers are footing the cost at no charge to the church. that's shitty. hope more people start to wake up.

also clear they're playing for team GOP here.

Then what you fail to understand is that there's more than 1 Catholic. There's even more than one Catholic Bishop. Last election, one of the newsletters put out by the same Catholic Bishops' organization was interpreted by many to be code for "abortion isn't the only issue in the world, if you consider issues like war and taking care of the poor, Obama might be the more ethical vote." That was the 1st time I even heard of this American council of bishops. It's not hypocrisy. It's not one person picking a choosing when different people disagree on issues and you hear from different people from year to year.

I was young when I figured out that some of the Catholics most driven to be active and vocal within our small town church were the ones with the most extreme ideas and were therefore not the best representative of the group as a whole. It turns out that idea applies broadly to all sorts of groups. I think you still need to learn it.

 

[redandguilty]

"They" is just vague enough that you can waffle around and point your finger at everyone and then backpedal if anyone challenges you on it, but I think you're posting from a position of hate too.

the same bishops who did that shit are still around. and it's not vague at all. still the same church. they allowed a significant number of priests to continually prey on kids for decades without it so much as testing their conscience. now... they want to get all hot and bothered over having to foot the bill for their civilian employees in non-church functions who may decide to go on birth control?

catholics seemed to have varying responses to it... from outright hostility to the accusers (blaming the victims), to trying to distance the church from its teachings and making peace with that. for me, after reading about the antics they pulled and the way they tried to defend it, and weasel out of it... yikes. that was the final nail in the coffin.

Catholics have finally addressed the issue properly. It's a huge black eye for it to ever have happened. But it's also no surprise. While we can't survey all the molesters out there, we can survey victims. The numbers indicate that the rest of the population just hasn't been caught yet. Regarding your characterization of the spectrum of reactions as being the final nail in the coffin, what on earth would you expect? Didn't some dioceses go bankrupt? Maybe Catholics should have rioted and flipped over news vans.

 

[Michchamp]

Do as we say, not as we do.

We represent the word of God.*

*We for years covered up that a number of priests were child molesters, enabled their crimes and the harm they caused by moving them from parish to parish to parish, then denied it, attempted to shield the priests involved from criminal justice, and only grudgingly did anything about it when pushed. And you can sure as hell bet we were meeting with civilian authorities behind closed doors, asking them to call off the heat, and pressuring district attorneys to back down.

But ignore all that as the work of a few bad apples.

Otherwise, we're still the flawless word of god.

here we say birth control is wrong, and you have to accept this as fact... because we represent the flawless word of god. even though we screw it up all the time. but not here.

*shakes donation jar in your face like Rev. Lovejoy in that episode of the Simpsons*

 

[redandguilty]

Do as we say, not as we do.

We represent the word of God.*

*We for years covered up that a number of priests were child molesters, enabled their crimes and the harm they caused by moving them from parish to parish to parish, then denied it, attempted to shield the priests involved from criminal justice, and only grudgingly did anything about it when pushed. And you can sure as hell bet we were meeting with civilian authorities behind closed doors, asking them to call off the heat, and pressuring district attorneys to back down.

But ignore all that as the work of a few bad apples.

Otherwise, we're still the flawless word of god.

here we say birth control is wrong, and you have to accept this as fact... because we represent the flawless word of god. even though we screw it up all the time. but not here.

*shakes donation jar in your face like Rev. Lovejoy in that episode of the Simpsons*

I accuse you of a specific behavior, and instead of addressing my accusation, you do it again.

 

[Michchamp]

see, maybe I'm just too logically consistent, but you can't have moral failings, and then insist I have to follow you because all your moral teachings are flawless. it's an all or nothing proposition. they insist they represent a higher moral standard than any other authority, yet they ask us to willingly ignore all the criminally abhorrent things they do.

to put it another way: if the catholic church could get pregnant, you can sure as shit bet THEY would be taking birth control, while insisting anyone else who did was violating the word of god, sinning, whatever.

they can go fuck themselves. if this sparks a further backlash against the church and everyone stops going and they have to close up shop and head back to Rome, I would be happy, clap my hands and cheer. it would be a good thing.

the law here is clear to begin with... and shouldn't have been a problem. Yet they choose to pick a fight over this issue, since it affects their "sincerely held beliefs." Ha. okay, well fine, even though they were in the wrong from the get go, obama offers them a face-saving way to back down. They feel empowered enough here (who knows exactly what their strategy is, and who is involved in it) to ignore it and throw down the gauntlet. Let's see what happens. Hopefully it blows up in their face.

 

[KAWDUP]

I think you had great answers, Red, and had I wanted to argue about whether the Catholic church was good or bad, my arguments would have looked a lot like yours, albeit much less eloquent.

Champ already told us why he doesn't answer the accusations and actually address what you write - he loves to argue. He probably doesn't really believe all those things he spews, but because he is so bitter and hateful towards certain groups, he will continue to argue about those tangents instead of talking about the real issue, which is the government involving itself in areas that most people thought they were free to decide for themselves.

But Champ and Obama know what is best for us, right Champ?

 

[Michchamp]

yes.

 

[KAWDUP]

See . . . I knew it.

Just think, what if you don't?

Left ya open for the inevitable answer . . . but I most certainly do.

Good for you, but as in most things, saying it doesn't make it so.

 

[TheVictors]

Champ, Obama and the Pope .... now there's a Mount Rushmore of all-time!

 

[Michchamp]

Champ, Obama and the Pope .... now there's a Mount Rushmore of all-time!

Hey at least neither Obama or I were members of the Hitler Youth!

and we never covered up for, and knowingly enabled priests under our control to molest thousands of kids. Yikes!

and we certainly never claimed to represent the word of god on earth...

 

[byco42]

Bishop Sheen said once: "There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church."

Most people's lack of understanding of what the Catholic Church stands for and believes in results in impassioned but mis-directed criticism of it, and actually they should preclude themselves from such until they gain a true understanding.