Anyone think Administration will lose votes

[redandguilty]

see, maybe I'm just too logically consistent, but you can't have moral failings, and then insist I have to follow you because all your moral teachings are flawless. it's an all or nothing proposition. they insist they represent a higher moral standard than any other authority, yet they ask us to willingly ignore all the criminally abhorrent things they do.

to put it another way: if the catholic church could get pregnant, you can sure as shit bet THEY would be taking birth control, while insisting anyone else who did was violating the word of god, sinning, whatever.

they can go fuck themselves. if this sparks a further backlash against the church and everyone stops going and they have to close up shop and head back to Rome, I would be happy, clap my hands and cheer. it would be a good thing.

the law here is clear to begin with... and shouldn't have been a problem. Yet they choose to pick a fight over this issue, since it affects their "sincerely held beliefs." Ha. okay, well fine, even though they were in the wrong from the get go, obama offers them a face-saving way to back down. They feel empowered enough here (who knows exactly what their strategy is, and who is involved in it) to ignore it and throw down the gauntlet. Let's see what happens. Hopefully it blows up in their face.

I hope you hold yourself to that standard, seeing how you like to throw the word hypocrite at groups of people.

Is there a point to starting a phrase with "you can't have moral failings and..."? Who on earth is the rest of that supposed to apply to? Who is left to teach morality, or is it a subject that should never be taught by anyone?

 

[byco42]

I predict that MC02 will be as devout a Catholic as he is a virulent detractor of the church in approximately 20 years. Maybe sooner.

 

[redandguilty]

they can go fuck themselves.

FYI. I see this as directed at me. I don't know whether or not you see me as part of the Catholic Church, but I am Catholic. Not a perfect Catholic, maybe not even a "good" Catholic, but I'm Catholic.

 

[redandguilty]

I predict that MC02 will be as devout a Catholic as he is a virulent detractor of the church in approximately 20 years. Maybe sooner.

I'm skeptical, but if is ever a devout Catholic, he'll be one of the extreme ones that I disagree with in most cases.

 

[redandguilty]

I think you had great answers, Red, and had I wanted to argue about whether the Catholic church was good or bad, my arguments would have looked a lot like yours, albeit much less eloquent.

Champ already told us why he doesn't answer the accusations and actually address what you write - he loves to argue. He probably doesn't really believe all those things he spews, but because he is so bitter and hateful towards certain groups, he will continue to argue about those tangents instead of talking about the real issue, which is the government involving itself in areas that most people thought they were free to decide for themselves.

But Champ and Obama know what is best for us, right Champ?

I once read an opinion piece about there being "2 Catholicisms" that distinguished between some of the words of the leadership and the works of the followers that I think of when discussions on whether or not we're good or bad pop up.

 

[byco42]

I predict that MC02 will be as devout a Catholic as he is a virulent detractor of the church in approximately 20 years. Maybe sooner.

I'm skeptical, but if is ever a devout Catholic, he'll be one of the extreme ones that I disagree with in most cases.

What does it mean to be an "extreme Catholic?"

 

[Michchamp]

that's a catholic that plays extreme sports.

anyways, I don't see myself becoming religious again.

 

[redandguilty]

the law here is clear to begin with... and shouldn't have been a problem. Yet they choose to pick a fight over this issue, since it affects their "sincerely held beliefs." Ha. okay, well fine, even though they were in the wrong from the get go, obama offers them a face-saving way to back down. They feel empowered enough here (who knows exactly what their strategy is, and who is involved in it) to ignore it and throw down the gauntlet. Let's see what happens. Hopefully it blows up in their face.

I don't think it's about Obama AT ALL from the point of view of the people you think are so politically motivated. This is about who gets to say what's right and what's wrong. This is the same battle that has happened time and time again within Catholicism. Catholicism isn't at all static. It's been wrong about many, many things and had to reverse course many times through the years. It changes at a glacial pace. The very slow change is one of the things that's helped it stand the test of time. It also means it can be decades (or worse) behind the rest of society when it comes making a change. Sometimes groups break away from the church over bigger issues and then we find ourselves wondering "what's the difference between a Catholic and a Lutheran" down the road as the church eventually comes around to the new way of thinking.

The argument at hand isn't new to Catholicism, it's been going on for a long time, and what Obama has to say about it isn't going to change the discussion on the Catholic side. The balance of Catholics that agree or disagree with church teaching on this issue probably tipped in America a long time ago, but it hasn't world wide yet. If you think the church must always be right to have any authority on morality, then you shouldn't be optimistic about them closing their doors over this issue. You should be dumbfounded that they haven't closed their doors over a thousand other issues over the past couple millenia.

 

[byco42]

that's a catholic that plays extreme sports.

anyways, I don't see myself becoming religious again.

One never does.

 

[redandguilty]

I'm skeptical, but if is ever a devout Catholic, he'll be one of the extreme ones that I disagree with in most cases.

What does it mean to be an "extreme Catholic?"

I mean a Catholic with some of the more extreme views and interpretations. One that interprets in black and white only.

 

[Michchamp]

hey, don't attack me. I'm not the one who fucked up.

 

[byco42]

What does it mean to be an "extreme Catholic?"

I mean a Catholic with some of the more extreme views and interpretations. One that interprets in black and white only.

Example, please.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm obviously unstable, or have an axe to grind, or something wrong with me... because I questioned the dogma that was force fed to me for 18 years and came to the conclusion it was nothing more than a steaming pile of BS.

obviously I must have some screws loose because no one in their right mind could take an objective look at religion and question whether it's not the biggest scam fostered upon humanity in history... You'd have to be CRAZY to think that.

you'll see me adopting the opus dei schpiel and arguing the mass should be in latin in 20 years... bombing abortion clinics, etc. etc.

 

[byco42]

I'm obviously unstable, or have an axe to grind, or something wrong with me... because I questioned the dogma that was force fed to me for 18 years and came to the conclusion it was nothing more than a steaming pile of BS.

obviously I must have some screws loose because no one in their right mind could take an objective look at religion and question whether it's not the biggest scam fostered upon humanity in history... You'd have to be CRAZY to think that.

you'll see me adopting the opus dei schpiel and arguing the mass should be in latin in 20 years... bombing abortion clinics, etc. etc.

Straw arguments like these often times spontaneously combust. You're not crazy; you're in the process of figuring things out. Keep going.

 

[Thumb]

 

[redandguilty]

I mean a Catholic with some of the more extreme views and interpretations. One that interprets in black and white only.

Example, please.

Like the priest that didn't want to let be a godfather for my niece without without documentation from my current parish. The documentation isn't required or even asked for in general. Since I went to mass with the Duke student congregation (where I was married) there regular documentation didn't even exist. My family member vouching for the fact that I'm Catholic wasn't good enough. In the end, the guy accepted paperwork from a different parish altogether that I went to and asked. They paperwork he accepted was BS. The vouching he didn't accept was authentic. The requirement was made up in his head anyway. But it was all black and white and checking off the right boxes for this guy.

 

[Michchamp]

Example, please.

Like the priest that didn't want to let be a godfather for my niece without without documentation from my current parish. The documentation isn't required or even asked for in general. Since I went to mass with the Duke student congregation (where I was married) there regular documentation didn't even exist. My family member vouching for the fact that I'm Catholic wasn't good enough. In the end, the guy accepted paperwork from a different parish altogether that I went to and asked. They paperwork he accepted was BS. The vouching he didn't accept was authentic. The requirement was made up in his head anyway. But it was all black and white and checking off the right boxes for this guy.

haha, you forged documentation of your catholicism to fool a priest?

you're going to burn for that one, young man!

 

[byco42]

Example, please.

Like the priest that didn't want to let be a godfather for my niece without without documentation from my current parish. The documentation isn't required or even asked for in general. Since I went to mass with the Duke student congregation (where I was married) there regular documentation didn't even exist. My family member vouching for the fact that I'm Catholic wasn't good enough. In the end, the guy accepted paperwork from a different parish altogether that I went to and asked. They paperwork he accepted was BS. The vouching he didn't accept was authentic. The requirement was made up in his head anyway. But it was all black and white and checking off the right boxes for this guy.

That's not what I was expecting as an example. I was thinking more doctrinal and not administrative. But there are clear requirements to be eligible as a godparent, one of the first being that you have to be baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church and have a clear intent to live up to the responsibilities of a godparent. And the paperwork should be on file at the parish where the sacraments occurred.

 

[byco42]

haha, you forged documentation of your catholicism to fool a priest?

you're going to burn for that one, young man!

Where?

 

[grandy]

religion

biggest scam fostered upon humanity in history

+1