Are these the End Times?

[Michchamp]

I'm gonna go git my Bible out and reads about it.

 

[Gulo Blue]

You might like the gospels. Christ criticizes religious authorities a lot.

 

[byco42]

I'm gonna go git my Bible out and reads about it.

Reading the Bible won't help you there. As Our Lord says:

'But of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father.' Mark 13:32

'Take ye heed, watch and pray. For ye know not when the time is.' Mark 13:33

My approach is to be prepared for His return at every moment. There's a lot in scripture about the importance of that.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Reading the Bible won't help you there. As Our Lord says:

'But of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father.' Mark 13:32

'Take ye heed, watch and pray. For ye know not when the time is.' Mark 13:33

My approach is to be prepared for His return at every moment. There's a lot in scripture about the importance of that.

Ok, but don't go full sparrow. Sow. Reap. Gather into barns. Just trust that you can be a little sparrow-like from time to time.

 

[Michchamp]

You might like the gospels. Christ criticizes religious authorities a lot.

I am familiar.

12 years of Catholic school.

(some would add "down the drain" after that)

 

[byco42]

I am familiar.

12 years of Catholic school.

(some would add "down the drain" after that)

12 years of poor catechesis, it seems. I was as poorly catechized, too.

 

[tinselwolverine]

12 years of poor catechesis, it seems. I was as poorly catechized, too.

That happened to me once after a surgery and I wasn?t able to piss on my own.

Fortunately, I became able to piss on my own before the thing gave me thrombosis.

I refused to leave the hospital in a wheelchair though.

I just walked out the automatic sliding door while some dickhead stood there holding the wheelchair with a flabbergasted look on his face.

Really? Like nobody had ever done that before?

Hospitals are for pussies.

 

[byco42]

That happened to me once after a surgery and I wasn’t able to piss on my own.

Fortunately, I became able to piss on my own before the thing gave me thrombosis.

I refused to leave the hospital in a wheelchair though.

I just walked out the automatic sliding door while some dickhead stood there holding the wheelchair with a flabbergasted look on his face.

Really? Like nobody had ever done that before?

Hospitals are for pussies.

I was in hospital for 5 days with Rhabdomyolysis. Baffled the entire staff. They IV'd me and I peed in a bottle as I rehydrated and flushed the dead muscle cells from my blood stream. I just starting to feel better when the IV needle dislodged from my arm. It took two hours for someone to finally come in and replace the needle. It's 0200 and I'm using my big boy voice -- "you LITERALLY HAVE ONE %$)*%)$*% JOB AND ITS TO KEEP THIS NEEDLE IN MY ARM!" The staff was not in anyway sympathetic.

My son, when he heard about this, called his best friend to "check in on me," who happened to be third in command of the entire hospital, and boss of every nurse who worked in it. No, he was boss of all the nurses' bosses bosses. He stayed for 45 minutes and the panic of the staff was ample retribution, because it was treating me like garbage up to that point.

After that, the needle never again left my arm, and (here's the point) I, too, walked out of the hospital, even though I still could not take 10 steps without feeling like I'd run a marathon with a 747 on my back.

I managed the strength to extend my middle finger as the doors parted.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I was in hospital for 5 days with Rhabdomyolysis. Baffled the entire staff. They IV'd me and I peed in a bottle as I rehydrated and flushed the dead muscle cells from my blood stream. I just starting to feel better when the IV needle dislodged from my arm. It took two hours for someone to finally come in and replace the needle. It's 0200 and I'm using my big boy voice -- "you LITERALLY HAVE ONE %$)*%)$*% JOB AND ITS TO KEEP THIS NEEDLE IN MY ARM!" The staff was not in anyway sympathetic.

My son, when he heard about this, called his best friend to "check in on me," who happened to be third in command of the entire hospital, and boss of every nurse who worked in it. No, he was boss of all the nurses' bosses bosses. He stayed for 45 minutes and the panic of the staff was ample retribution, because it was treating me like garbage up to that point.

After that, the needle never again left my arm, and (here's the point) I, too, walked out of the hospital, even though I still could not take 10 steps without feeling like I'd run a marathon with a 747 on my back.

I managed the strength to extend my middle finger as the doors parted.

Nice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYt0WbDjJ4E

 

[biggunsbob]

When are we going to make These big mega churches Pay tax’s ?

 

[sggatecl]

When are we going to make These big mega churches Pay tax?s ?

Not soon enough.

 

[Michchamp]

It would be interesting to read a comparison of how much we subsidize mega-churches via tax breaks - which if removed would make them otherwise "unprofitable" for the charlatans who run them (or at least a whole lot smaller) VS. the public amounts we spend on general science & educational programming, like on PBS or through museums & public school science education.

I bet $5 it would be seriously out of wack. I also wonder how we'd compare in this regard to Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan under the Taliban.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It would be interesting to read a comparison of how much we subsidize mega-churches via tax breaks - which if removed would make them otherwise "unprofitable" for the charlatans who run them (or at least a whole lot smaller) VS. the public amounts we spend on general science & educational programming, like on PBS or through museums & public school science education.

I bet $5 it would be seriously out of wack. I also wonder how we'd compare in this regard to Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Interesting enough question to get me to try to ballpark it. In 2012, the Economist estimated that the US Catholic Church spent $170 billion (mostly on hospitals and schools)


https://www.economist.com/briefing/2012/08/18/earthly-concerns


I think the US is around 1/4th Catholic, so if spending is close to income, I think you're talking about 3-4 times that much all together. So it's a ton, but the tax revenue on 3-4 companies that big (if companies that big even pay any tax) wouldn't come close to our science and education spending.

 

[Michchamp]

Interesting enough question to get me to try to ballpark it. In 2012, the Economist estimated that the US Catholic Church spent $170 billion (mostly on hospitals and schools)


https://www.economist.com/briefing/2012/08/18/earthly-concerns


I think the US is around 1/4th Catholic, so if spending is close to income, I think you're talking about 3-4 times that much all together. So it's a ton, but the tax revenue on 3-4 companies that big (if companies that big even pay any tax) wouldn't come close to our science and education spending.

In 2013, the Washington Post had an article estimating that the US subsidy for all religions was $82.5 BILLION. I don't know enough about the context around all this yet, to decide whether it's significant, and how the subsidy plays out.

Obviously religions and churches wouldn't go away completely if we made them pay taxes on their land (I think...?), but presumably they would spend less.

Whether they spend the extra cash they receive from tax breaks/subsidies efficiently is a different issue that also needs to be considered.

you could structure taxes on churches in a way that incentivizes them to spend the windfall they get in ways that benefits social welfare generally, such as not-for-profit education and hospitals.

The goal here in taxing religions - at least in my mind - is to keep individuals from using organized religion to enrich themselves, AND to keep religions from meddling in politics; otherwise the tax subsidy they get effectively becomes "a law respecting an establishment of religion," prohibited by the First Amendment.

FWIW:

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself, and when it does not support itself?it?s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
​

?Benjamin Franklin, October 9, 1780​

​

 

[Michchamp]

Here's an article advocating taxing religion, with some examples of religious leaders who've openly meddled in US Politics, how Conservatives have knee-capped the IRS' ability to punish churches that meddle in politics, and the most obvious local example of someone profiting off religion (Local - Houston), Joel Osteen.

Joel Osteen is a slimy guy. The size of his stupid megachurch, and its location need to be seen to be believed. On Sundays, the amount of public money that goes to managing traffic in and out of it is crazy (they use Houston cops to do this), not to mention the amount of public infrastructure it uses (access roads and driveways, prime land for parking, sewage, electricity, etc.) is wild. All for what? A bunch of ignoramuses to have some sunshine blown up their asses for a couple hours?

Here's his house:

 

[Gulo Blue]

The issue is very much complicated by the massive scales of religious hospitals and schools.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Here's an article advocating taxing religion, with some examples of religious leaders who've openly meddled in US Politics, how Conservatives have knee-capped the IRS' ability to punish churches that meddle in politics, and the most obvious local example of someone profiting off religion (Local - Houston), Joel Osteen.

Joel Osteen is a slimy guy. The size of his stupid megachurch, and its location need to be seen to be believed. On Sundays, the amount of public money that goes to managing traffic in and out of it is crazy (they use Houston cops to do this), not to mention the amount of public infrastructure it uses (access roads and driveways, prime land for parking, sewage, electricity, etc.) is wild. All for what? A bunch of ignoramuses to have some sunshine blown up their asses for a couple hours?

Here's his house:

Showing me examples like this won't move the needle for me. How to separate 'good' religion from 'bad' religion is impossible, but complaining about bad religion I'm 100% on board with. I'm not sure which of us are more against this kind of BS. You want to do away with all of it, so I see this crap as a threat to the stuff I'm in favor of.


Like how Spartan trolls secretly love Taylor Lewan because he gives them something to point to while we would like to erase him from our history.

 

[Michchamp]

The issue is very much complicated by the massive scales of religious hospitals and schools.

Do we need religion to run those hospitals and schools? Anyone could do it. The buildings aren't held up by prayer or divine intervention, and they all employ non-religious people & lay managers.

This trend away from ordained management of schools and hospitals to lay people running them has only increased.

My Catholic high school is almost entirely lay faculty now. There aren't even any ordained faculty on the leadership committee; in the 90's it was still headed by a Christian brother.

 

[Michchamp]

Showing me examples like this won't move the needle for me. How to separate 'good' religion from 'bad' religion is impossible, but complaining about bad religion I'm 100% on board with. I'm not sure which of us are more against this kind of BS. You want to do away with all of it, so I see this crap as a threat to the stuff I'm in favor of.


Like how Spartan trolls secretly love Taylor Lewan because he gives them something to point to while we would like to erase him from our history.

I don't want to do away with it, I want to put it in its place: private spiritual advice and succor for those inclined. Totally removed from the public sphere.

And Spartan trolls secretly love Taylor Lewan because they wished he played for MSU. That's the kind of people they are.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Do we need religion to run those hospitals and schools? Anyone could do it. The buildings aren't held up by prayer or divine intervention, and they all employ non-religious people & lay managers.

This trend away from ordained management of schools and hospitals to lay people running them has only increased.

My Catholic high school is almost entirely lay faculty now. There aren't even any ordained faculty on the leadership committee; in the 90's it was still headed by a Christian brother.

It's like the Bowl Games. Those hospitals are the way they are because it was religious organizations that created them. People look at the system 100 years later as a whole and say they wouldn't design it that way, but at the time, there was nobody else looking to step in and create these institutions.