Arod or Nettles

[tycobb420]

I know this is NOT a Yankee board, but this was a debate I saw on ESPN awhile back. Yankee fans seemed split over these two. The reason? A-rod is not a real Yankee, is a tool, and disappears in the postseason. Plus, Nettles was a superior fielder.

I just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[turok]

Yanks fans are fairweather-fickle when it comes to members of the teams that the Yanks' brass fields, had Afraud done the direct opposite of what he has since being traded by the Rangers, and had only one lousy postseason, instead of just his swell performance @ the plate in that lone Yankees WS championship season of '09, there would be no argument that he was indeed a "true" Yankee.

 

[kalinecountry]

As Yankees;

Games 1127
A-rod 8 years
AtBats 4210
Hits 1240
Runs 815
Doubles 210
Homeruns 284
RBI 903
SB 128
Walks 607
K's 921
Slash line .295/.391/.550/.941
OPS+ 144
Total Bases 2316

Nettles 11 years
Games 1535
At Bats 5519
Hits 1396
Runs 750
Doubles 202
Homeruns 250
RBI 834
SB 18
Walks 627
K's 753
Slash line .253/.329/.433/.750
OPS+ 114
Total Bases 2388

Offensively it's no contest. A-rod a much better hitter.
Defensively Nettles is top ten worthy all-time defensive 3rd baseman.
A-rod is average to below at best.
overall it's arod, imo

Both are/were extremely dislikeable players,
nettles was known as a prick and in several fights as protagonist/antagonist. He picked on the wrong guy in George Brett years ago. the time brett tripled and slid into third ahead of the throw. nettles kicked brett in the face and brett got up and punched the snot out of him with a flurry of right and lefts.

 

[jimrice]

A-Rod's personality is the only reason this is a debate. This is literally like debating Kaline versus Higginson, talent wise. One was a solid player and the other an all time great.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Back in the 70's, especially against those Dodgers in the WS Nettles always seemed to make some spectacular plays in the field. Some of the best I've ever seen. I actually rooted for the NYY at that time. How things have changed

 

[tycobb420]

Nettles has a monstrous edge over A-Rod in the field. Obviously, A-Rod holds the monstrous offensive edge. I guess, for Yankee fans, it comes down to their definition of "what is a Yankee."

 

[byco42]

I just remember Nettles best for flailing at the plate in the '84 WS. And he robbed Lopes and Baker of XPH's in the 78 WS. Of course, there was the spectacle of his exploding bat, as well, against the Tigers. Nettles explained:

"I didn't know there was anything wrong with the bat," Nettles said after the game. "That was the first time I used it. Some Yankees fan in Chicago gave it to me and said it would bring me good luck. There's no brand name on it or anything. Maybe the guy made it himself. It had been in the bat rack, and I picked it up by mistake, because it looked like the bat I had been using the last few days."

Tool.

 

[Mitchrapp]

A tool because he tried to use a corked bat? You might be surprised how many players have that never got caught.

 

[tycobb420]

I just remember Nettles best for flailing at the plate in the '84 WS. And he robbed Lopes and Baker of XPH's in the 78 WS. Of course, there was the spectacle of his exploding bat, as well, against the Tigers. Nettles explained:

"I didn't know there was anything wrong with the bat," Nettles said after the game. "That was the first time I used it. Some Yankees fan in Chicago gave it to me and said it would bring me good luck. There's no brand name on it or anything. Maybe the guy made it himself. It had been in the bat rack, and I picked it up by mistake, because it looked like the bat I had been using the last few days."

Tool.

The plays in '78 are Nettles signature moment. I am not sure what A-Rod's is...all that comes to mind is the fight with Varitek, his slapping at Arroyo, and the steroid stuff.

 

[chrisinthed]

A Rod is a top-ten talent of all time at the plate. But he cheated with steroids, so it's hard to project what he would be without the benefit of PEDs. He also is a real jerk, as evidenced by going on 60 minutes and lying to entire nation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/13/60minutes/main3617425.shtml


He also does some real bush league antics, like calling "Mine" while running the bases to an opposing 3rd baseman trying to field a popup.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270530114


His stats measure up against just about anyone, and he is clearly better than Craig Nettles, but his mediocre glovework and choking in the playoffs means he is not one of the greatest of all time, not even close.

 

[tycobb420]

A Rod is a top-ten talent of all time at the plate. But he cheated with steroids, so it's hard to project what he would be without the benefit of PEDs. He also is a real jerk, as evidenced by going on 60 minutes and lying to entire nation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/13/60minutes/main3617425.shtml


He also does some real bush league antics, like calling "Mine" while running the bases to an opposing 3rd baseman trying to field a popup.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=270530114


His stats measure up against just about anyone, and he is clearly better than Craig Nettles, but his mediocre glovework and choking in the playoffs means he is not one of the greatest of all time, not even close.

So would you take Nettles over A-Rod?

 

[jimrice]

This is a weird debate. Nettles was weak offensively in the playoffs, never hitting a homer in any WS. His total playoff OPS is .641. Everyone seems to remember him making some highlight reel defensive plays, which is great, but hardly makes up for his offensive choke job.

A-rod has an .884 OPS career in the playoffs. He has disappointed a few times, but overall has been decent. It's really no uncommon for a guy to lay an egg occasionally in a playoff, considering the small sample size. Even "clutch" guys like Reggie Jackson had been years in the playoffs.

Perception is such a funny thing. This isn't close in any way shape or form.

 

[tycobb420]

A-Rod in the playoffs...

1995: 2 ABs
1997: Only 1 RBI
2000: He tore it up
2004: He ripped Minnesota and then was mediocre against Boston
2005: .133
2006: .071
2007: .267 1 RBI
2009: Tore it up again
2010: Mediocre; Disappeared in the ALCS
2011: .111

So, in 10 postseasons:

1. 1995 does not count (2 ABs)
2. He was underwhelming in 1997, the 2004 ALCS, and the 2010 WS
3. He sucked in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, and in the 2010 ALCS
4. He rocked in 2004 ALDS, 2000, 2009,

In reality, he has only had one really good postseason and did well in most of two others.

 

[jimrice]

A-Rod in the playoffs...

1995: 2 ABs
1997: Only 1 RBI
2000: He tore it up
2004: He ripped Minnesota and then was mediocre against Boston
2005: .133
2006: .071
2007: .267 1 RBI
2009: Tore it up again
2010: Mediocre; Disappeared in the ALCS
2011: .111

So, in 10 postseasons:

1. 1995 does not count (2 ABs)
2. He was underwhelming in 1997, the 2004 ALCS, and the 2010 WS
3. He sucked in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, and in the 2010 ALCS
4. He rocked in 2004 ALDS, 2000, 2009,

In reality, he has only had one really good postseason and did well in most of two others.

Fair enough, but Nettles was considerably worse.

 

[tycobb420]

For equal time: Nettles postseason.

1969- 1 AB (Don't count)

1976- Mediocre average, but did drive in 4 runs in the ALCS

1977- No show (.150 and .190)

1978- Very good ALCS/ Terrible WS

1980- Terrible

1981- Terrible ALDS, Torrid ALCS and WS

1984- Terrible NLCS, Mediocre WS

1. 1969 does not count (1 AB)
2. He was mediocre in the 1984 WS and the 76 postseason
3. He sucked in 1977, the 1978 WS, 1980, the 1981 ALDS, and 1984 NLCS
4. He rocked in 78 ALCS, 81 ALCS and WS

So, offensively somewhat comparable to A-Rod in the postseason. Defensively is another story. Nettles is top 10, perhaps top 5, all time defensively. A-Rod is average at best.

 

[jimrice]

For equal time: Nettles postseason.

1969- 1 AB (Don't count)

1976- Mediocre average, but did drive in 4 runs in the ALCS

1977- No show (.150 and .190)

1978- Very good ALCS/ Terrible WS

1980- Terrible

1981- Terrible ALDS, Torrid ALCS and WS

1984- Terrible NLCS, Mediocre WS

1. 1969 does not count (1 AB)
2. He was mediocre in the 1984 WS and the 76 postseason
3. He sucked in 1977, the 1978 WS, 1980, the 1981 ALDS, and 1984 NLCS
4. He rocked in 78 ALCS, 81 ALCS and WS

So, offensively somewhat comparable to A-Rod in the postseason. Defensively is another story. Nettles is top 10, perhaps top 5, all time defensively. A-Rod is average at best.

Nettles has a couple of GG in 20 years. He was a plus defender with a lot of errors. A-rod has a couple of GG at short in his career.

I don't think the difference in defense is as great as you make out. Personally, I think you have a bias against this generation of player and favor the older guys. Some of these guys can play.

I'm not sure how a .640 OPS and .880 OPS work out to "somewhat comparable", either.

 

[tycobb420]

For equal time: Nettles postseason.

1969- 1 AB (Don't count)

1976- Mediocre average, but did drive in 4 runs in the ALCS

1977- No show (.150 and .190)

1978- Very good ALCS/ Terrible WS

1980- Terrible

1981- Terrible ALDS, Torrid ALCS and WS

1984- Terrible NLCS, Mediocre WS

1. 1969 does not count (1 AB)
2. He was mediocre in the 1984 WS and the 76 postseason
3. He sucked in 1977, the 1978 WS, 1980, the 1981 ALDS, and 1984 NLCS
4. He rocked in 78 ALCS, 81 ALCS and WS

So, offensively somewhat comparable to A-Rod in the postseason. Defensively is another story. Nettles is top 10, perhaps top 5, all time defensively. A-Rod is average at best.

Nettles has a couple of GG in 20 years. He was a plus defender with a lot of errors. A-rod has a couple of GG at short in his career.

I don't think the difference in defense is as great as you make out. Personally, I think you have a bias against this generation of player and favor the older guys. Some of these guys can play.

I'm not sure how a .640 OPS and .880 OPS work out to "somewhat comparable", either.

Nettles was top 10 all time defensively. I am not refering to A-Rod the SS, but A-Rod the 3b.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'm not sure what the question was on the old boards but i think of Nettles I think NYY and when i think A rod I think punk.

 

[tycobb420]

Mitch[/color]]I'm not sure what the question was on the old boards but i think of Nettles I think NYY and when i think A rod I think punk.

Honestly, I think that's what it came down to. I was quite surprised as more Yankee fans chose Nettles. It was like 2-to-1 in favor of Nettles.

 

[chrisinthed]

Earlier in his career in the mid-1990s to mid-2000s, Arod was one of the very best ever to play SS and his numbers are just plain sick. Now....not so much. He is starting to look old, and maybe he isn't using the roids anymore or a combination of different factors. I'd still take him over Nettles though.