Cologne incident

[Gulo Blue]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/w...-cologne-were-unprecedented-germany-says.html

Hundreds of men in what seems to be coordinated attacks in Cologne raped 1 and groped and/or robbed 90 women with an additional 10 cases in Hamburg. They appeared to be North African or Arabic in appearance. I haven't found a newpaper of record that will say they are refugees and the incidents somehow stayed out of the papers for days.

So I'm changing my position some. Maybe not much, maybe no substantial change, but I'll change my rhetoric. I still don't think we should completely close our doors to refugees, but obviously, something has gone very wrong here. I don't know if our screening process is sufficient and Germany's is lacking or if you need to split up refugees...just a few per community. That would seem to make things very difficult for refugees and I know we have refugee communities here that are helpful, positive parts of the larger community. But this can't happen. I know it makes life more difficult for refugees and I know the trickle of people that make it through the process is dwarfed by the number of people that need help, but we have no ethical obligation to allow violent mobs into our communities either.

 

[Michchamp]

is there video of it? it being some number of these attacks

not saying it didn't happen, but I'm surprised there wasn't already video of these attacks all over the web. seems like the kind of thing that would be video taped and blasted across twitter, facebook, etc immediately in this day and age

 

[Gulo Blue]

is there video of it? it being some number of these attacks

not saying it didn't happen, but I'm surprised there wasn't already video of these attacks all over the web. seems like the kind of thing that would be video taped and blasted across twitter, facebook, etc immediately in this day and age

No video I'm aware of that show anything worse than people firing fireworks haphazardly in crowded places. Still, too many reports to be lies unless it was an orchestrated deception, and in that case, you'd expect to find out all the people filing reports were all part of some group.


BBC is saying 8 out of 8 people that were detained by one officer were asylum seekers.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046

 

[zyxt9]

seems questionable, it could be legit but also might not be. the fact it has slowly come to light makes it seem a little more legit as opposed to a group of anti-Muslim types collectively implying it. seems police are still trying to piece the whole thing together. maybe some video surfaces in next few days, just hope some asshole doesn't post fake shit.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's not true. If DSF has taught me anything, asylum seekers are only looking for a better life and will immediately assimilate to the norms of western society. We only need to worry about conservative white males, particularly those that (mostly) legally own guns and at a minimum first generation children of legal but not undocumented immigrants. That is the only risk. This is nothing but a purely racist smear campaign. And if they did do it, it's only because they're retaliating against the racist, oppressive regime that is systematically forcing them into perpetual poverty - so even if it's true, it's not their fault.

Sorry it took me a day to chime in on this.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's not true. If DSF has taught me anything, asylum seekers are only looking for a better life and will immediately assimilate to the norms of western society.

Part of the story is the accusation that this sentiment is so strong in Germany, there was some effort to not report the story, and once it was reported, to omit any part of the story that would lead you to link it to refugees. Well, maybe not because this sentiment is strong so much as it had been expressed strongly by Merkel and she kind of politically owns the success of their integration into German society.

 

[Michchamp]

It's not true. If DSF has taught me anything, asylum seekers are only looking for a better life and will immediately assimilate to the norms of western society. We only need to worry about conservative white males, particularly those that (mostly) legally own guns and at a minimum first generation children of legal but not undocumented immigrants. That is the only risk. This is nothing but a purely racist smear campaign. And if they did do it, it's only because they're retaliating against the racist, oppressive regime that is systematically forcing them into perpetual poverty - so even if it's true, it's not their fault.

Sorry it took me a day to chime in on this.

dumbass, if even zyxt isn't jumping to conclusions here, maybe it's obvious there's more smoke than fire?

apparently SOMETHING happened; whether this was a coordinated attempt to attack German women, or a bunch of drunk assholes the local PD needs to do a better job keeping in line is still an open question in my book. FWIW "the darkies are coming to take our womenfolk" is like the first line of propaganda 101... I'm immediately suspect of it.

 

[Spartanmack]

dumbass, if even zyxt isn't jumping to conclusions here, maybe it's obvious there's more smoke than fire?

apparently SOMETHING happened; whether this was a coordinated attempt to attack German women, or a bunch of drunk assholes the local PD needs to do a better job keeping in line is still an open question in my book. FWIW "the darkies are coming to take our womenfolk" is like the first line of propaganda 101... I'm immediately suspect of it.

Dude, c'mon - we all know it's the Germans who brought these people into their country so they could systematically oppress them, blame them for all the ills of their society and keep them perpetually poor so they can live off of German tax payers. It's basically how every quasi-capitalist western society thrives, particularly if it's a democracy and they have conservatives political parties, according to you.

 

[Gulo Blue]

dumbass, if even zyxt isn't jumping to conclusions here, maybe it's obvious there's more smoke than fire?

apparently SOMETHING happened; whether this was a coordinated attempt to attack German women, or a bunch of drunk assholes the local PD needs to do a better job keeping in line is still an open question in my book. FWIW "the darkies are coming to take our womenfolk" is like the first line of propaganda 101... I'm immediately suspect of it.

They keep calling it "coordinated". I'd like to know what they mean by that.

If it's from the same news companies that people are accusing of trying to keep the story quiet and keep race out of it, it would be strange for it to be part of the propaganda effort to call it coordinated.

 

[Gulo Blue]

There's some talk of organized crime/pickpocketing being the driver.

 

[TheVictors]

it's definitely made the news.


how the story is being spun (here and in the media) is typical of the talking points for each side of the situation.

 

[Gulo Blue]

it's definitely made the news.


how the story is being spun (here and in the media) is typical of the talking points for each side of the situation.

It's made the news now, but the 1st couple days there was nothing. Maybe no surprise here, but little to nothing in Germany.

 

[zyxt9]

The world is going to be hesitant to trust Germans when it comes to claims like these. Now, if the Swiss had this happen, people wouldn't be as unsure about validity...but Germans will continue being looked upon with skepticism when these types of stories come out.

 

[Michchamp]

The world is going to be hesitant to trust Germans when it comes to claims like these. Now, if the Swiss had this happen, people wouldn't be as unsure about validity...but Germans will continue being looked upon with skepticism when these types of stories come out.

True. People forget about WWII and the Nazis all the time.

 

[Michchamp]

They keep calling it "coordinated". I'd like to know what they mean by that.

If it's from the same news companies that people are accusing of trying to keep the story quiet and keep race out of it, it would be strange for it to be part of the propaganda effort to call it coordinated.

that sounds like something Arabic men in the 18-35 year old demographic do: claim asylum in a country, just to organize into groups and sexually harass women on NYE in a massive coordinated assault. How could the Germans not have seen this coming?!?

Presumably they coordinate via text message or facebook, which should be easy enough to catch, given that the NSA vacuums up every digital communication sent.

 

[Gulo Blue]

True. People forget about WWII and the Nazis all the time.

Pretty sure that's a part of why they're taking in the most refugees and very hesitant to pin this on them.

 

[Spartanmack]

The left seizing the opportunity for more propaganda against their opposition. never let a good crisis or tragedy go to waste. Germany's interior minister had this to say about the dangers of free speech.

"What happens on the right-wing platforms and in chatrooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women," he said. "This is poisoning the climate of our society."

No Ralf, no it is not.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35248601

 

[Gulo Blue]

Numbers going up.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-violence-probe-rises-above-500-a6804946.html

Police said on Sunday that of the 516 criminal complaints made since the violence 10 days ago, around 40 per cent involved allegations of sexual offences.

Initial reports had suggested scores of women were targeted, while just 31 suspects have been detained by police for questioning, 18 of whom were asylum seekers.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Why are there 3.4 men per woman seeking asylum?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-11/european-migrant-crisis-triggers-gender-imbalance/7076924

The male-to-female ratio is now more imbalanced in Sweden than China. As the article suggests, that might help explain what's going on with these assaults. Apparently, they've been going on and have been hushed up since 2014.

 

[Michchamp]

Why are there 3.4 men per woman seeking asylum?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-11/european-migrant-crisis-triggers-gender-imbalance/7076924

The male-to-female ratio is now more imbalanced in Sweden than China. As the article suggests, that might help explain what's going on with these assaults. Apparently, they've been going on and have been hushed up since 2014.

well, presumably only the strong survive when you get into situations of extreme violence and deprivation. Didn't you read the Road?

women and children are less likely not only to make it out of Syria, but less likely to survive brutal open-boat sea trips and lawless refugee camps.