Cologne incident

[tinselwolverine]

Yeah it does, right in the title. It the search wasn't limited to econ, it wouldn't be the most assigned book. It would be Strunk&White or The Republic.

Out of respect for the importance of minutia, this is exactly the title:

Karl Marx is the most assigned economist in U.S. college classes

So it doesn't specifically identify the focus of the classes as economics; it simply identifies Marx as an economist, regardless of the type of classes his writings are being assigned for...

 

[Gulo Blue]

Half-assed attempts to discredit the data, hand waiving and anecdotes - trumps real evidence every time.

Have you ever set foot on a college campus? According to this survey https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/10/24/survey-finds-professors-already-liberal-have-moved-further-left 62.7% of faculty at 4 year colleges and Universities self-identify as liberal (50.3) or far left (12.4% - that's up nearly 50% in 3 years).[/url].

I don't find these numbers to be shocking. Is anyone claiming universities have less of a leftward lean than this?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Out of respect for the importance of minutia, this is exactly the title:

Karl Marx is the most assigned economist in U.S. college classes

So it doesn't specifically identify the focus of the classes as economics; it simply identifies Marx as an economist, regardless of the type of classes his writings are being assigned for...

Sure, but crtl-f, "econ" gets you 17 hits. Maybe my reply shouldn't have been about the title, but to argue that that article doesn't single out economics?

I get accused of having too much respect for minutia on here. So, this is a step in the (non-political) right direction for me, right (also non-political)?

 

[Gulo Blue]

Maybe I should write an article about how Elements of Style is the most assigned book by a movie consultant.

In 1935?36, Strunk enjoyed serving as the literary consultant for the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer film Romeo and Juliet (1936). In the studio he was known as "the professor," in part because, with his three-piece suit and wire-rim spectacles, he "looked as though he'd been delivered to the set from MGM's casting department."[7]

I could complain that while the book is not about film, it shows how universities are pushing American script writers to follow written grammar rules rather than write dialog that reflect how people actually speak.

Or would that be too convoluted to make sense?

 

[tinselwolverine]

I get accused of having too much respect for minutia on here.

I know.

That's why I made the post.

I did a yahoo search for "most assigned text at American Universities" and this was at the top of the list.

This from the link I found especially amusing:

The book (The Communist Manifesto) appears in the syllabi of 90 Michigan college courses, nine more than “Frankenstein,” by Mary Shelley. One book is about a grotesque experiment thrust upon the world with tragic consequences, and the other is the classic novel “Frankenstein.”

 

[Spartanmack]

Yeah it does, right in the title. It the search wasn't limited to econ, it wouldn't be the most assigned book. It would be Strunk&White or The Republic.

No, it doesn't. The title calls Marx an economist - probably a misnomer but the study doesn't single out economics - it covers all academic departments. And if you include books by non-economists, TCM is still third - but I guess that should be a lot less disturbing than 1st.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't find these numbers to be shocking. Is anyone claiming universities have less of a leftward lean than this?

Marxist, socialist, liberal, left-leaning, Democratic, Communist, EVIL... why quibble? It's all the same thing: people who don't agree with Spartanjackass and are therefore bad and wrong by definition.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I know.

That's why I made the post.

I did a yahoo search for "most assigned text at American Universities" and this was at the top of the list.

This from the link I found especially amusing:

The book (The Communist Manifesto) appears in the syllabi of 90 Michigan college courses, nine more than ?Frankenstein,? by Mary Shelley. One book is about a grotesque experiment thrust upon the world with tragic consequences, and the other is the classic novel ?Frankenstein.?

Nice.

 

[grandy]

That's a tough question. I think, without a total collapse of the system, which I don't think anyone sees happening or wants, given the grip liberals have on academia (as well as the media and hollywood) it would be very difficult for conservatives to gain any ground and balance the scales. You would have to have something akin to the BLM for conservatives - they declare themselves some sort of special victim status that requires protection, put for a list of demands that includes political ideology quotas in hiring, etc. That said, I don't think not having a viable solution doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist or in any way discredits anyone who makes the point about universities being politically unbalanced, as you seem to be indicating by your post.

The opposite actually, I find the lack of discussion disturbing. One side is complaining about flaws and the other side isn't open to the possibility that flaws exist, not exactly a welcoming atmosphere for discussion or debate.

 

[Gulo Blue]

No, it doesn't. The title calls Marx an economist - probably a misnomer but the study doesn't single out economics - it covers all academic departments. And if you include books by non-economists, TCM is still third - but I guess that should be a lot less disturbing than 1st.

Just when I was thinking only a parody of me would be that hung up on minutia.

You asked why we were talking about economics, right? The article says economics a whole bunch of times. I think that's why.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't find these numbers to be shocking. Is anyone claiming universities have less of a leftward lean than this?

That's not my point and I don't expect anyone to be surprised by them. The fact that you're not surprised doesn't disprove the fact that American universities are bastions of liberalism.

 

[Gulo Blue]

That's not my point and I don't expect anyone to be surprised by them. The fact that you're not surprised doesn't disprove my point.

Really? 63% is an unshakable grip on academia that probably can't be fixed without a collapse of the system?

 

[Spartanmack]

Really? 63% is an unshakable grip on academia that probably can't be fixed without a collapse of the system?

repudiation would probably be a better word than collapse but yes, 63% is more than enough to prevent political balance from ever being achieved - that is unless conservatives get recognized as a class of victim that requires protection, doubtful the leftists would extend that status to anyone who can actually show they're being discriminated against.

 

[Spartanmack]

Just when I was thinking only a parody of me would be that hung up on minutia.

You asked why we were talking about economics, right? The article says economics a whole bunch of times. I think that's why.

no, I didn't ask that. I said it's incorrect to say it's nothing to be alarmed over because it's not the most assigned book to econ majors.

 

[Gulo Blue]

no, I didn't ask that. I said it's incorrect to say it's nothing to be alarmed over because it's not the most assigned book to econ majors.

I think this thread should be enough to pass the "literal/technicality/minutia/nit pick" title to you. Maybe you didn't ask that with that exact wording and maybe the title was about a book written by an economist, but come on.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Why do we only need to focus on economics?

Fine, you didn't ask why we were talking about economics.

 

[grandy]

repudiation would probably be a better word than collapse but yes, 63% is more than enough to prevent political balance from ever being achieved - that is unless conservatives get recognized as a class of victim that requires protection, doubtful the leftists would extend that status to anyone who can actually show they're being discriminated against.

Do you ever think there will be strong enough opposition, based on numbers?

I'm not sure if it's a clear majority, people going along with a perceived majority out of necessity, or if the perceived majority is successfully suppressing the minority in this case.

If you believe young people can think for themselves, then I think we'll see political leanings trend back and forth. Lately I've seen a lot of disagreement among people on the left regarding activism and social justice, I wouldn't be surprised to see a split that trickles down onto college campuses as liberal extremes are tempered.

If you don't believe young people can think for themselves, I'm not sure what to say...I generally believe society is self-correcting, something will eventually push the reset button, it may not be pretty but it will happen.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I think I was assigned The Wealth of Nations when I took Econ 101 at Michigan.

The professor had written his own text that synopsized other important economists; actually, maybe I only read an synopsis of Adam Smith in the professor's, text.

I didn't read Das Kapital; I remember hearing that it was a dry and technical and cumbersome book.

I don't think I was ever assigned The Communist Manifesto; I did read a synopsis of it, I think, on my own.

I wouldn't describe the faculty at Michigan as being commie or socialists, but more the quasi-elite "limousine liberal (only not as affluent)" out here in Hollywood; Chuck Lorre may have replaced George Clooney as Obama's #1 Hollywood supporter, but he ain't givin' back all his money - that's for sure.

I majored in English and took a lot of theater and political science classes for distribution.

I guess the English Dept and Theater Dept faculty were kinda artsy liberal types to whatever degree they were political, but I don't recall them being all that political.

The political scientist faculty - the ones I encountered anyway - tended to be true academics, and were more interested in the study as a social science, rather than as political partisans.

I don't know how much different things are in the 30 some years since I went there.

 

[Spartanmack]

Do you ever think there will be strong enough opposition, based on numbers?

I'm not sure if it's a clear majority, people going along with a perceived majority out of necessity, or if the perceived majority is successfully suppressing the minority in this case.

If you believe young people can think for themselves, then I think we'll see political leanings trend back and forth. Lately I've seen a lot of disagreement among people on the left regarding activism and social justice, I wouldn't be surprised to see a split that trickles down onto college campuses as liberal extremes are tempered.

If you don't believe young people can think for themselves, I'm not sure what to say...I generally believe society is self-correcting, something will eventually push the reset button, it may not be pretty but it will happen.

I absolutely think it's a clear majority - the lowest number of any survey of how faculty self-identify is over 60% Liberal and extreme left.

I think young people can think for themselves. I think everyone can, but that doesn't mean they always do. I think young people are highly impressionable and they tend to view professors as authorities on the subject matter - that's not surprising nor a bad thing necessarily if they're receiving balanced views, but they're not. Young people mostly also lack real world experience, any real responsibility and accountability. In my opinion, the combination of being impressionable and lacking real world experience and responsibility at the time they're exposed to these philosophies definitely has an impact on them.

I agree society is self-correcting to a degree but I think that correction happens when people start earning money, getting married and having kids - when they become responsible for themselves and others. And I also see it in degrees - the self-correction often is understated or incomplete so it doesn't necessarily even out and the overall trend isn't altered.

As for your first question - whether there will be strong enough opposition based on numbers, I don't think that will happen anytime soon. I actually think the number that's going to cause the biggest problem for universities is tuition, not an insurgence of conservatives. Tuition has gotten so outrageously expensive that a lot of people will (and should) look at tuition and their future earning potential and decide it's not worth it - it's already happening, with good and bad consequences (the rise of scam for-profit schools would be one).

 

[Spartanmack]

Fine, you didn't ask why we were talking about economics.

That was poorly worded. I meant why are you focused only on what econ majors are reading when the study clearly looks at all academic disciplines. Good nit.