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Compairing Kinsler with Infante

byco42 said:
This Comerica career split of Kinsler's is not encouraging:
162 PA AVG .200 OBP .298 SLG. 329 OPS .627

Career home: AVG .304 OBP .387 SLG .511 OPS .898
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Definitely notable, and certainly worth some concern. But is that because of the park or the pitching? We don't see the Rangers a ton each year, and if we meet in the playoffs they are facing our best pitchers. Is Kinsler really bad in Comerica, or did we just remove 3-4 bad matchups from his yearly averages?
 
everyoneneedsasmil said:
Comerica is neutral because of the sample taken. We were 17th in 2010 and 9th in 2011 and 2012 (when that article was written).

If you did the same thing with the Rangers, but use the last three years instead of 2010-2012, you would see a similar shift. The Rangers park would have been 1st, 4th, then 17th for hitters, placing them closer to the middle than the top.

Comerica was 9th, 9th, and 3rd the last three years, which using that same type of study would push Comerica to right around the same overall level.

I am not completely disagreeing that the Rangers have a slightly better ballpark for hitters, but I think the difference is exaggerated. Park factors outside of huge geographical or dimensional advantages (Coors field, Safeco) are heavily skewed by the home team. The Rangers have developed and paid big bucks for big bats for a while now, and that's going to be reflected in their park factors. Comerica was 3rd overall this year because we were trotting out an elite offense (and even in spite of the fact that most of our pitchers pitched better at home).

Our pitching overall was better on the road, implying it's easier to get hits at Comerica.
Click to expand...

Please stop using ESPN's "Park Factors".
 
everyoneneedsasmil said:
Definitely notable, and certainly worth some concern. But is that because of the park or the pitching? We don't see the Rangers a ton each year, and if we meet in the playoffs they are facing our best pitchers. Is Kinsler really bad in Comerica, or did we just remove 3-4 bad matchups from his yearly averages?
Click to expand...


He is really that bad.
 
everyoneneedsasmil said:
Comerica is neutral because of the sample taken. We were 17th in 2010 and 9th in 2011 and 2012 (when that article was written).

If you did the same thing with the Rangers, but use the last three years instead of 2010-2012, you would see a similar shift. The Rangers park would have been 1st, 4th, then 17th for hitters, placing them closer to the middle than the top.

Comerica was 9th, 9th, and 3rd the last three years, which using that same type of study would push Comerica to right around the same overall level.
I am not completely disagreeing that the Rangers have a slightly better ballpark for hitters, but I think the difference is exaggerated. Park factors outside of huge geographical or dimensional advantages (Coors field, Safeco) are heavily skewed by the home team. The Rangers have developed and paid big bucks for big bats for a while now, and that's going to be reflected in their park factors. Comerica was 3rd overall this year because we were trotting out an elite offense (and even in spite of the fact that most of our pitchers pitched better at home).

Our pitching overall was better on the road, implying it's easier to get hits at Comerica.
Click to expand...

you can't use just 3 years....offenses change. TX had a bad offense last year wich reflects the 17th ranking.
 
everyoneneedsasmil said:
Definitely notable, and certainly worth some concern. But is that because of the park or the pitching? We don't see the Rangers a ton each year, and if we meet in the playoffs they are facing our best pitchers. Is Kinsler really bad in Comerica, or did we just remove 3-4 bad matchups from his yearly averages?
Click to expand...

His career road splits are just plain bad.

Five year average, 2009-13: .303/.388/.691 sOPS (league away split) 94.
 
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5 years

DET = 102 PPF

TEX = 106 PPF

First and foremost, team composition determines run scoring more than the physical dimensions. DET is full of player's that cannot play on the road. Which negates road run scoring. You are supposing we change park classifications every year. It's a hitter's park one year, park neutral the next.

DET Team Pitching, Home vs Away

2013 = .696 OPS vs .666 OPS
2012 = .691 OPS vs .742 OPS
2011 = .713 OPS vs .722 OPS
2010 = .695 OPS vs .775 OPS
2009 = .725 OPS vs .795 OPS

There is very little difference in Home performance in these 5 years. And only this last year was Home far worse than Away.

TEX Team Pitching, Home vs Away

2013 = .692 OPS vs .709 OPS
2012 = .736 OPS vs .695 OPS
2011 = .738 OPS vs .658 OPS
2010 = .704 OPS vs .714 OPS
2009 = .757 OPS vs .736 OPS

Clearly, if we sum the data, TEX has been better on the Road and DET has been better at Home for pitching.
 
spockmaster said:
i call bullshit on espn. they have fucking SAFECO ranked above texas. not possible.
Click to expand...


Supposedly in the lower half, per ESPN (Park Fator website ranking)

17. TEX (3)

16. CIN (4)

18. ARZ (9)

20. BOS (10)
 
Fenway is certainly a hitter's park, especially for righties. No foul terrortory helps.
 
Rebbiv said:
Away OPS since 2012

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...am=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=10,d
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Texas as a team was much worse on the road in that time frame, not just Kinsler.

I think you also have to look at park factors as a good reason why.

2010 Texas' division foes, in park factors, ranked:

2. Sea
3. LAA
11. Oak

2011

4. LAA
5. Sea
11. Oak

2012

1. Seattle
4. LAA
9. Oak

2013

5. Oak
12. LAA
16. Sea
22. Hou

With the exception of Houston last year(1.074), they've had only "pitcher friendly" parks in their division. That's a good chunk of their road games. I really don't think it's fair to just throw out "away stats" on their own. Where they play their away games has a big influence on the outcomes.
 
Last edited:
gotime909 said:
Texas as a team was much worse on the road in that time frame, not just Kinsler.

I think you also have to look at park factors as a good reason why.

2010 Texas' division foes, in park factors, ranked:

2. Sea
3. LAA
11. Oak

2011

4. LAA
5. Sea
11. Oak

2012

1. Seattle
4. LAA
9. Oak

2013

5. Oak
12. LAA
16. Sea
22. Hou

With the exception of Houston last year(1.074), they've had only "pitcher friendly" parks in their division. That's a good chunk of their road games. I really don't think it's fair to just throw out "away stats" on their own. Where they play their away games has a big influence on the outcomes.
Click to expand...

You do realize Comerica's "park factor" makes it a Hitter's park in the AL during 2011-2013?

I consider it a flaw to designate Comerica as a hitter's park. It is more park neutral.

Maybe the AL West just has weak hitting and great pitching teams that skew their park factor.

Numerical range for parks last 15 years (100 = neutral).

TEX 111 - 101 (difference of 10 point swing, 106 median)

BOS 107 - 101 (difference of 6 point swing, 104 median)

NYY 106 - 101 (difference of 5 point swing, 103.5 median)

CHW 106 - 101 (difference of 5 point swing, 103.5 median)

KCR 110 - 97 (difference of 13 point swing, 103.5 median)

HOU 107 - 97 (difference of 10 point swing, 102 median)

TOR 104 - 97 (difference of 7 point swing. 101.5 median)

DET 106 - 94 (difference of 12 point swing, 100 median)

MIN 100 - 98 (difference of 2 point swing, 99 median)

BAL 103 - 95 (difference of 8 point swing, 99 median)

CLE 101 - 94 (difference of 7 point swing, 97.5 median)

LAA 102 - 92 (difference of 10 point swing, 97 median)

TBR 101 - 93 (difference of 8 point swing, 97 median)

OAK 100 - 94 (difference of 6 point swing, 97 median)

SEA 97 - 90 (difference of 7 point swing, 93.5 median)


Last 5 years hitting Away versus Home

1. TEX .727 OPS vs .809 OPS (.082 difference)
2. BOS .752 OPS vs .822 OPS (.070 difference)
3. BAL .697 OPS vs .764 OPS (.067 difference)
4. DET .730 OPS vs .795 OPS (.065 difference)
5. NYY .750 OPS vs .807 OPS (.057 difference)
6. CHW .699 OPS vs .749 OPS (.050 difference)
7. TOR .721 OPS vs .765 OPS (.044 difference)
8. MIN .705 OPS vs .740 OPS (.035 difference)
9. KCR .704 OPS vs .740 OPS (.036 difference)
10. OAK .712 OPS vs .715 OPS (.003 difference)
11. TBR .740 OPS vs .736 OPS (- .004 difference)
12. CLE .726 OPS vs .719 OPS (- .007 difference)
13. LAA .749 OPS vs .737 OPS (- .012 difference)
14. HOU .680 OPS vs .668 OPS (- .012 difference)
15. SEA .685 OPS vs .656 OPS (- .029 difference)


In premise, I agree that Away stats can be influenced by divisional play. However it does a better job in mitigating park factor than just looking at totals. How do you reconcile someone who plays in Coors or Arlington?
 
The reason baseball is less fun now compared to 20 years ago = stat geeks that only look at black and white numbers. There's more to baseball than stats, just like any other sport, but for some reason that's what it's become.
 
Monster said:
The reason baseball is less fun now compared to 20 years ago = stat geeks that only look at black and white numbers. There's more to baseball than stats, just like any other sport, but for some reason that's what it's become.
Click to expand...



You sound like LKP now.
 
I agree with the 20 years but for its the money and why you can't keep a team together. Stupid free agency..only way a guy stays if you offer him a small fortune and it's the best offer out there..who's the last guy we had for their entire career?
 
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