Conceding 2B

[bdtay1971]

This is an old argument but with all the griping in today's game thread I'll argue it again. If you cover the bag for a potential throw to 2b then you leave a gaping hole for an otherwise ground ball out to get through for a base hit. It's like guarding the lines in the 9th inning with a one run lead to prevent extra-base hits or maybe a better analogy.....the prevent defense which we all hate, but there is a purpose for it. So what if the score was 7-5 instead of 7-3.

 

[Mitchrapp]

What are you talking about?

 

[bdtay1971]

What are you talking about?

Read the game thread post #220.

 

[tigermud]

I think all that is being said is that we should stop conceding the steals late in games just handing out extra bases all the time, it would be nice to see us not allow teams to continuing doing that all the time once in awhile.

 

[Thumb]

This is an old argument but with all the griping in today's game thread I'll argue it again. If you cover the bag for a potential throw to 2b then you leave a gaping hole for an otherwise ground ball out to get through for a base hit. It's like guarding the lines in the 9th inning with a one run lead to prevent extra-base hits or maybe a better analogy.....the prevent defense which we all hate, but there is a purpose for it. So what if the score was 7-5 instead of 7-3.

The typing run was at home plate. One fat pitch in the right spot and we might have lost this game.

I don't have a problem conceding a run to get a sure out when you have a lead, by throwing the batter out at first allowing the guy on third to score, because you're trading a run for an out.

When you let a guy take second and get into scoring position in defensive indifference, it's not a trade off, it's just a gift. You also remove the possibility of the double play ball.


"If you cover the bag for a potential throw to 2b then you leave a gaping hole for an otherwise ground ball out to get through for a base hit."

And if you don't cover and they get a base hit anyways, you just allowed a run to score.

IMO, and the opinion of many, it's just stupid to give a runner a free shot at scoring position.

 

[bdtay1971]

The typing run was at home plate. One fat pitch in the right spot and we might have lost this game.

I don't have a problem conceding a run to get a sure out when you have a lead, by throwing the batter out at first allowing the guy on third to score, because you're trading a run for an out.

When you let a guy take second and get into scoring position in defensive indifference, it's not a trade off, it's just a gift. You also remove the possibility of the double play ball.


"If you cover the bag for a potential throw to 2b then you leave a gaping hole for an otherwise ground ball out to get through for a base hit."

And if you don't cover and they get a base hit anyways, you just allowed a run to score.

IMO, and the opinion of many, it's just stupid to give a runner a free shot at scoring position.

Right, but it's a run that doesn't matter.

 

[Thumb]

Right, but it's a run that doesn't matter.

Except they did matter.

If they don't score, the tying run never steps to the plate. It worked out for us in the end, but could have went the other way too.

 

[Thumb]

Anyone know what Rod and Mario say about the defensive indifference thing?

I know Jim Price hates it as much as I do. He said today, something along the lines of "hey, if we're just going to give them second base they're going to take it all day long".

He has bitched about it for years, rightly so.

We have 2 catchers with fucking cannons for arms, nobody should get a free pass at second base.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Tigers aren't the only ones who do this.

 

[Thumb]

Tigers aren't the only ones who do this.

No, they're not. But it's still not something most teams do.

 

[bdtay1971]

Except they did matter.

If they don't score, the tying run never steps to the plate. It worked out for us in the end, but could have went the other way too.

You are assuming that if we don't give them the indifference that they would have been out. When you are up by 4 runs with a runner on first, the focus is on the batter. The only reason the tying run came to the plate is because the batter kept getting on base. I agree that it would be nice to keep the double play in-tact however, if the 2B breaks for the bag and the batter dribbles a weak hit through the infield you are now one batter closer to the tying run coming to the plate. This strategy simply requires the P to get the current batter out.

 

[jimrice]

Anyone know what Rod and Mario say about the defensive indifference thing?

I know Jim Price hates it as much as I do. He said today, something along the lines of "hey, if we're just going to give them second base they're going to take it all day long".

He has bitched about it for years, rightly so.

We have 2 catchers with fucking cannons for arms, nobody should get a free pass at second base.

Agree with this. Bad news in any sport, be it prevent defense in football, no forecheck in hockey or defensive indifference in baseball.

 

[biggunsbob]

I hate defensive indifference in the ninth inning... 90% of the time it probably will not hurt you but what I don't understand is why not like 1 out of 4 or 5 runners you try and nail that guy that try's and takes second. it will put the idea in the opposing team that you may try and get that runner and not give the base. I fucking hate it... if you would pitch out and nail a guy once or twice it would stop it for a time..

 

[bdtay1971]

I hate defensive indifference in the ninth inning... 90% of the time it probably will not hurt you but what I don't understand is why not like 1 out of 4 or 5 runners you try and nail that guy that try's and takes second. it will put the idea in the opposing team that you may try and get that runner and not give the base. I fucking hate it... if you would pitch out and nail a guy once or twice it would stop it for a time..

That I wouldn't mind seeing happen BUT JL probably doesn't want to put his P behind in the count.

 

[cmlfactor]

I've hated defensive indifference for years as well. I don't see how you can been in a 2 run game with a runner on and say that said runner represents "an insignificant run." It brings the score closer right? Then when the runner scores on wild pitches (which is extremely likely for OUR bullpen) then the guy at the plate hits a solo shot to tie it up. Yeah how about that "insignificant" run now? Try to throw him out for pete's sake, even if the throw goes into centerfield the runner can be "insignificant" at third just as well as he can at second.

 

[biggunsbob]

One problem is a lot of Rp don't seem to hold runners very well... Jv, and JB come to mind on our club..

 

[spockmaster]

One problem is a lot of Rp don't seem to hold runners very well... Jv, and JB come to mind on our club..

thats definitely another issue, they take forever to pitch and dont pay attention whatsoever.

 

[bdtay1971]

I've hated defensive indifference for years as well. I don't see how you can been in a 2 run game with a runner on and say that said runner represents "an insignificant run." It brings the score closer right? Then when the runner scores on wild pitches (which is extremely likely for OUR bullpen) then the guy at the plate hits a solo shot to tie it up. Yeah how about that "insignificant" run now? Try to throw him out for pete's sake, even if the throw goes into centerfield the runner can be "insignificant" at third just as well as he can at second.

We are all entitled to opinions but to call out management for being stupid when some clearly do not understand the logic behind the decision is why I even bothered to post this thread. In a 2 run game, with a man on base, if the batter hits a HR the game is tied whether the runner was on 1B, 2B, 3b or had scored on a wild pitch. This only applies in the 9th inning until the tying run is actually on base and the winning run is at the plate. I agree that there are times you could do different things to keep a team guessing but in the end it is a risk/reward decision and JL is obviously an old school, conservative manager.