Coronainsanity

[Michchamp]

... bottom line, it's a lot easier for me to believe in someone in the audience misreading a dark and nuanced and pessimistic view of what we've done and where we are (even easier if that person has an agenda) than an entire room of people applauding the slow tortuous death of 5 billion. That just doesn't pass the sniff test with me.

I just read this part, and I don't need to read a single other post in this thread, to know where it went sideways

 

[byco42]

I googled. That's one guy's side of the story. Here's a defense from the speaker:

http://www.bio.utexas.edu/faculty/pianka/Controversy.html

Yeah, I saw that and it was a bad interview gone worse. As for is denial of advocating mass genocide, and ?not pushing to kill people? there?s this quote from his address

?And the fossil fuels are running out,? he said, ?so I think we may have to cut back to two billion, which would be about one-third as many people.? Sounds like to he?s advocating the elimination of five billion people.

But bottom line, it's a lot easier for me to believe in someone in the audience misreading a dark and nuanced and pessimistic view of what we've done and where we are (even easier if that person has an agenda) than an entire room of people applauding the slow tortuous death of 5 billion. [b[That just doesn't pass the sniff test with me.[/b]

Neither do these quotes from influencers and well-known advocates for depopulation.

Even Machiavelli and Pope Paul the VI ?agree? that overpopulation is a burden on the overpopulated.

Link

Over crowdedness and overpopulation are not then same thing. Yet, the social engineers continue to build multi-dwelling housing to pack us all into confined spaces.

 

[Gulo Blue]

?And the fossil fuels are running out,? he said, ?so I think we may have to cut back to two billion, which would be about one-third as many people.? Sounds like to he?s advocating the elimination of five billion people.

No it doesn't. Well, ok, this 'sounds' like it if you take it out of context, but that's not what he's saying. If you're talking about what it would take to get consumption down to sustainable levels you would say something like that without advocating eliminating people. If you're talking about an involuntary collapse in the population when we run out of easy resources (which he's also talking about) you can talk about how bad the drop would be without advocating it. If you think the drop is happening either way (by force or by planning) you can promote a plan that doesn't involve tortuous death. Big difference between family planning and murder.

 

[Spartanmack]

Whether he's advocating for eliminating 5bln people or saying that's would need to happen if we run out of fossil fuels isn't the issue. The real issue is this guy is a moron and his ideas are going to age as well as every other doomsday population control idiot who got their 15 minutes of fame with their outrageously dumb predictions.

If he's not the one advocating killing 5bln people, his moronic and baseless ideas will be used by the others (probably academics) to push those solutions to his imaginary problem.

 

[byco42]

No it doesn't. Well, ok, this 'sounds' like it if you take it out of context, but that's not what he's saying. If you're talking about what it would take to get consumption down to sustainable levels you would say something like that without advocating eliminating people. If you're talking about an involuntary collapse in the population when we run out of easy resources (which he's also talking about) you can talk about how bad the drop would be without advocating it. If you think the drop is happening either way (by force or by planning) you can promote a plan that doesn't involve tortuous death. Big difference between family planning and murder.

?Cut back to two billion? denotes to me he advocates an elimination plan.

-30-

 

[Gulo Blue]

?Cut back to two billion? denotes to me he advocates an elimination plan.

-30-

"I have never advocated genocide or mass death." denotes to me he does not.

 

[Spartanmack]

"I have never advocated genocide or mass death." denotes to me he does not.

"I have never advocated for the thing I just advocated for" denotes political double speak to cya to me.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Where is that phrase? I hit crtl-f on two copies of the transcript and didn't see it.

 

[Michchamp]

?Cut back to two billion? denotes to me he advocates an elimination plan.

-30-

I don't understand how people push the Christian/Capitalist line of thinking that continuous growth is not only a good idea, but possible.



Don't worry... we can obviously keep pumping oil out of the ground, mining metals, pumping CO2 and CH4 into the atmosphere, fishing the oceans empty, farming the soil til it's devoid of nitrogen, and having billions more people... indefinitely. God will make the Earth bigger, keep the atmosphere stable, put more fish in the sea, oil in the ground, and nitrogen in the soil so everyone can live in the suburbs, have a car, produce tons of single-use plastic waste a year, and live in a perfect climate-controlled environment every minute of their lives.



It's not like humans have understood laws of conservation of matter for hundreds of years or anything...

 

[byco42]

I don't understand how people push the Christian/Capitalist line of thinking that continuous growth is not only a good idea, but possible.


Don't worry... we can obviously keep pumping oil out of the ground, mining metals, pumping CO2 and CH4 into the atmosphere, fishing the oceans empty, farming the soil til it's devoid of nitrogen, and having billions more people... indefinitely. God will make the Earth bigger, keep the atmosphere stable, put more fish in the sea, oil in the ground, and nitrogen in the soil so everyone can live in the suburbs, have a car, produce tons of single-use plastic waste a year, and live in a perfect climate-controlled environment every minute of their lives.


It's not like humans have understood laws of conservation of matter for hundreds of years or anything...

Don?t exonerate China and Russia from this.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't understand how people push the Christian/Capitalist line of thinking that continuous growth is not only a good idea, but possible.

I think Pope said we aren't obligated to multiply like rabbits or something like that.

 

[Michchamp]

I think Pope said we aren't obligated to multiply like rabbits or something like that.

he needs to lead his flock in that direction then. otherwise he's part of the problem.

wouldn't that be something if after 2,000+ years, the Catholic Church finally ended up on the right side of history? >

 

[Michchamp]

Don?t exonerate China and Russia from this.

We made current day Russia into a bad copy of ourselves. We've now become that bad copy... a corrupt corporate oligarchy.

China helped us get that way, by willingly converting their rural peasantry into factory workers, so American capitalists (aka oligarchs) could outsource production there and gut the American middle class. :cheers:

 

[mhughes0021]

technology should be out infront of the population problem in my opinion. The focus isnt there because its not effecting anyone yet. Unless ofcourse youre going to pull a china and just limit the number of children you can have...which will never happen.

Its like the people that dont want to wear masks and then someone close to them dies....now they wear masks.

Even our government incentivizes people for having more kids every tax season.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't understand how people push the Christian/Capitalist line of thinking that continuous growth is not only a good idea, but possible...

What I don't understand is why you continue to push your anti-Christian and anti-capitalist nonsenses with lazy strawman arguments. Literally no one is saying the things you say and if they were, they're either not unique to either Christianity or capitalism or have nothing to do with them.

 

[Spartanmack]

We made current day Russia into a bad copy of ourselves. We've now become that bad copy... a corrupt corporate oligarchy.

China helped us get that way, by willingly converting their rural peasantry into factory workers, so American capitalists (aka oligarchs) could outsource production there and gut the American middle class. :cheers:

Russia made Russia into a bad copy of ourselves and China is responsible for what's happened in China - if anything, we stood by as it happened thinking capitalism and freedom would come with their industrialization. If we made a mistake in China, it was not pushing for market and human rights reforms all along.

 

[mhughes0021]

Russia made Russia into a bad copy of ourselves and China is responsible for what's happened in China - if anything, we stood by as it happened thinking capitalism and freedom would come with their industrialization. If we made a mistake in China, it was not pushing for market and human rights reforms all along.

Id rather have 14 year olds working like China does. Than 22 year olds still living with their moms with no drivers license sitting in their rooms playing Fortnite...like america does.

 

[Spartanmack]

Id rather have 14 year olds working like China does. Than 22 year olds still living with their moms with no drivers license sitting in their rooms playing Fortnite...like america does.

that's because you're not very smart. A lot of those 22 year olds playing fortnite in their mom's basement overspent on useless degrees or are too dumb or lazy to get a job that they think is beneath their dignity. If you want those people to go back to work, vote for someone who is going to stand up to China to get a better trade deal and do other things like cut corporate taxes so we have a chance at bringing back skilled manufacturing jobs to America. Or if you just want to post comments on DSF that demonstrate your ignorance and stupidity, vote for Biden.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Id rather have 14 year olds working like China does. Than 22 year olds still living with their moms with no drivers license sitting in their rooms playing Fortnite...like america does.

I was working when I was 14.

My understanding is kids are miss used in China. I don?t know how much of a 14-year-old Chinese kids day goes to working and how much goes to studying. I expect they have a caste system and the children of the more influential commies do shit like studying and the children of the less influential commies do shit like working real hard.

I don?t know how many 22-year-olds are sitting around playing legend on their mom?s living room couches. That sounds like something that might be hyperbole.

When I was 22 I was studying at the University of Michigan. When I was 24 I climbed into my car with my few earthly possessions and really no money or not much, and drove across the country to pursue my dreams.

Didn?t really achieve them to the degree that I had hoped but they were pretty lofty goals as it were, and my life has been pretty eventful as it turned out.

Now when I got here, I didn?t sit around on any couch playing legend. I had to work my ass off to survive.

 

[Michchamp]

that's because you're not very smart. A lot of those 22 year olds playing fortnite in their mom's basement overspent on useless degrees or are too dumb or lazy to get a job that they think is beneath their dignity. If you want those people to go back to work, vote for someone who is going to stand up to China to get a better trade deal and do other things like cut corporate taxes so we have a chance at bringing back skilled manufacturing jobs to America. Or if you just want to post comments on DSF that demonstrate your ignorance and stupidity, vote for Biden.

Hear that useless libtard college grads?

Go work for $1/hour (or whatever factory workers make in China) making plastic spatulas, and if you don't, you're STUPID, DUMB, AND LAZY, unlike real smart white collar workers like Spartanmack and I, who totally work really hard doing things so complicated only a ROCKET SCIENTIST could understand, and don't pay any attention to the fact that our jobs are so easy and meaningless, and the whole US economy is a pyramid scheme moving money around that's soon to collapse that we can post on DSF all day. We're WORKING.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I already did the one thing I had to do this morning, and now I need to go do the two things I needed to do this afternoon.