Denard in the offense...

[Monster]

i thought illinois played and almost lost to western michigan?

did you see how well they played against us until the rain started hitting hard? WMU is not a bad team at all. If you remember it was 7-0 after the first quarter and would have been 14-7 in the second if not for that Herron INT.

i'm not saying we're going to lose to illinois, but it's not going to be an easy game.

 

[dannydiggler]

That was our first game of the season and not having a clue personnel wise. Illinois has had 3 games prior to this and has had the same coach and system for years. No excuses for them. Michigan is better at every position and has a better staff.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Danny Diggler[/color]]In week 4... A stable defense and we make that a nail biter.

I like the chances against them this year. Defensively and how weak their O line is and Offensively Denard vs the new Linebackers.

Confident wins

Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue
Illinois

Could go either way:

Sparty
Iowa
Ohio

Not as confident but still a possibility:
Nebraska

Michigan will prevail.

I don't know, I think Illinois and Northwestern have a great chance of taking us out. Both games are away and both have an offense capable of scoring on us.

 

[KAWDUP]

Monster [/color]]
[quote="Danny Diggler":h1tsszpx]Whats really funny is that in high school Devin ran a Spread Option and Denard ran a pro style offense.. Weird huh?

your point? Devin is better equipped to run a pro style offense. Bigger, stronger, better arm, and still a very fast QB. I was all for Denard in a pro style offense, but just looking at him out there, he's not suited for this offense.

Please take off your "OMFG HE JUST BROKE THAT GUY"S ANKLE" blinders. He can't pass the ball unless it's to the sideline or a lob that our receivers have to fight through to get. The coaches have adapted their offense to fit his style and it's holding this team back. He could always improve, but until that time, he's a liability. But, please, I hope to God I'm wrong and we kick the shit out of sparty, nebraska, and Osu. If I'm wrong and Denard somehow manages to win one, two, or all three of those, PLEASE feed me crow. I'd gladly take a serving or two.

Maybe Devin's looked like shit in practice...i'll grant you that..but i don't know that. I haven't heard anything about that. All I know is Devin would probably make some mistakes, but at least the defense would have to respect his ability to throw the ball. [/quote:h1tsszpx]

I believe that I some others aren't the only ones with blinders on. You are looking at high school scouting reports and trying to make a case that Devin is better, but like you already stated, you don't really know who is better.

You're a real glass is half empty kind of guy, eh?

That is totally fine - that is your right, but there is also nothing wrong with looking at the bright side of a situation we can't change.

Lastly, Devin may have a better arm, but "Devin is stronger?" Where did you get that information?

I would say that from the objective evidence we have available to us, that is blatantly false and just your attempt to pump up the same tired argument we always hear when Michigan football now is compared to the 80's and 90's. They don't measure up yet.

Is there anyone on this message board that you think really doesn't get that fact?

Sheesh

 

[dubbsco]

If Devin Gardner was a better player for this offense right now, he's be starting. If Hoke was playing Robinson out of fear that he may transfer, then that is highly disappointing. I trust him to be playing the best players at all times. Right now, Denard gives this team the best chance of winning. If things change, I'm sure it will be re-evaluated.

 

[hungry]

Monster [/color]]

So you don't trust that Hoke made the decision to start Denard b/c he gives UM the best chance at winning?

lol @ you, my friend.

lol no. he definitely had a choice. but could you imagine what would have happened if Denard wasn't the starter? Before spring practice even started, denard was a heisman candidate. I mean, shit, look at what happens anytime someone even hints that Denard has a flaw. People throw a fit and say things like Devin would be the starter if he was better.

You honestly think that's true? Devin (by most scouts ) is a pro style offense QB with mobility. I could be misremembering here, but i think that was the case. He was also highly recruited as a QB. Denard was an athlete and dickrod was the only coach i know of that wanted him as a QB.

from Devin's scout profile:

Athletic quarterback with inate ability to feel pressure and elude defenders. Has good change of direction and is very elusive. Has a nice arm and can make all the throws. Needs work mechanically, but shows good touch on his passes, particularly the deep ball. Is a very smart and poised player who is cool under pressure and in the clutch. Shows good command of the offense and understanding of the game.

plain and simple, when we can't run the ball and denard's getting 5 yard carries instead of 15 and 20 yarders....we're going to be screwed because we won't be able to throw the ball. Denard's thrown 6 INTs already against the likes of ND, EMU, WMU, and SDSU. Can't wait for Big 10 play. Good thing the B1G is weak this year.

4-0. I'm happy. Just scares the shit out of me that we have no passing game. the only successful passes are the fake QB draws.

so your argument is that Coach Hoke is only starting Denard because he was afraid he would transfer and the fans/media would've been mad? OK....

then you say that Devin was more highly recruited while he was in high school

Well, my argument is that right now Denard is the better QB...

The coaches have actual information to use to evaluate who should be the starter, not propaganda, not what they did in high school. They can actually watch what these guys do in practice. We can't. You're just assuming a bunch of shit...I guess I am, too, but I'm assuming that the coaches are smart enough to start the best QB on the team. I'm going to stick to my logical argument. I agree he needs to work on his passing. He's doing jsut that. That's why he continues to play even though Michigan has games in hand. Hopefully, he improves.

I think what's happening with Devin is the same thing that happens with every sub when the starter does something wrong. That next guy in is always the better guy to the fans for some reason. Well, there's a reason he's on the bench. Just because a guy gets praise in high school, doesn't really mean he's a superstar. My bet is that Devin isn't nearly as good as a lot of fans are making him out to be. He probably has a lot to work on, as well.

 

[hungry]

Let's remember that when Michigan had to throw-against ND--we did and did successfully. I'll worry about Denard when we lose.

Exactly! When he had to make the throws to win the game, he did just that!

karma for you!

 

[hungry]

Monster [/color]]
[quote="Danny Diggler":4s3j9aba]Whats really funny is that in high school Devin ran a Spread Option and Denard ran a pro style offense.. Weird huh?

your point? Devin is better equipped to run a pro style offense. Bigger, stronger, better arm, and still a very fast QB. I was all for Denard in a pro style offense, but just looking at him out there, he's not suited for this offense.

Please take off your "OMFG HE JUST BROKE THAT GUY"S ANKLE" blinders. He can't pass the ball unless it's to the sideline or a lob that our receivers have to fight through to get. The coaches have adapted their offense to fit his style and it's holding this team back. He could always improve, but until that time, he's a liability. But, please, I hope to God I'm wrong and we kick the shit out of sparty, nebraska, and Osu. If I'm wrong and Denard somehow manages to win one, two, or all three of those, PLEASE feed me crow. I'd gladly take a serving or two.

Maybe Devin's looked like shit in practice...i'll grant you that..but i don't know that. I haven't heard anything about that. All I know is Devin would probably make some mistakes, but at least the defense would have to respect his ability to throw the ball. [/quote:4s3j9aba]

YOU think Devin is better equipped to run a pro offense. You have nothing to prove this other than some high school reports and videos.

IF Michigan loses to those teams, I sure hope you're not going to be running around saying, "Well, if we played Devin, we would've won." You'll have no leg to stand on there.

 

[hungry]

Monster [/color]]

Let's remember that when Michigan had to throw-against ND--we did and did successfully. I'll worry about Denard when we lose.

we passed successfully? I wouldn't call a few underthrown lobs that our receivers had to fight for a successful pass. I'd call it a hell of a catch that we were lucky the DBs weren't smarter and turned around and took them to the house.

or are you talking about the wide open pass (no one within 20 yards) to gallon that set up the game winning catch?

Those lob passes are supposed to be spotted on the back-shoulder...they were.

Denard hit Kelvin Grady and Jeremy Gallon in stride on 2 beautiful passes in that game.

Darn! When Michigan is up by 3 td's in other games, Denard has missed a few passes...*kicks pebbles*

 

[Monster]

Monster [/color]]

we passed successfully? I wouldn't call a few underthrown lobs that our receivers had to fight for a successful pass. I'd call it a hell of a catch that we were lucky the DBs weren't smarter and turned around and took them to the house.

or are you talking about the wide open pass (no one within 20 yards) to gallon that set up the game winning catch?

Those lob passes are supposed to be spotted on the back-shoulder...they were.

Denard hit Kelvin Grady and Jeremy Gallon in stride on 2 beautiful passes in that game.

Darn! When Michigan is up by 3 td's in other games, Denard has missed a few passes...*kicks pebbles*

say what?The lobs in the endzone were not where they were supposed to be. They actually had a higher chance of gettiing picked than being a TD. Then the lob to midfield to Hemmingway....I mean seriously, you don't throw that pass in the middle of the field. Lucky the WRs were so good that day.

 

[bamf16]

If Hoke did pull Denard for Devin, isn't that just doing what Rich Rod would have done?

 

[bamf16]

I still contend that steps can and should be taken to open up the facets of the passing game that have struggled. The throws Denard made last year that aren't being made this year were set up better than this year. Though I'm not impressed with Borges and his playcalling right now, I understand he's called plays in this offense for 4 weeks, not 10 years.

But the blueprint on how to take steps to make Denard a well rounded QB (not an unstoppable one) was written last season and it doesn't seem to have been read yet.

 

[newton83]

Here's an idea: If Gardner indeed is better, what if we put him in at quarterback and have Denard run the wildcat on some plays. We could just have him do what he excelled at last year, the zone read, and have Devin's hopefully more accurate arm making those passes downfield. At this point though, Devin would need to be getting more reps in games for this to be even remotely realistic.

 

[foreverblue73]

Here's my two cents:
I truly feel that DG is the better QB and fits the system much better than DR. DR may be throwing 70% in practice but this 70% doesn't mean jack if you can't perform when it counts. So far this year DR has only completed 48.6% of his passes http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/480237/denard-robinson
, far cry from the 70% we have heard so much about. Now I know some will think I'm an idiot but what few times DG actually saw the field last year (I know different coaches and different system) he actually did complete 70% of his passes. http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/501543/devin-gardner
Leading me to believe that DG is the better QB.

 

[rayhowland3]

Bam-

I think you make some good points. Denard will probably always be a run threat FIRST, no matter how good his passing gets.

I personally think DRob has regressed a bit in his passing skills. He is trying to force stuff, just to make a big play, and isn't taking his time going through all his progressions. I do think Michigan needs to return using "bubble screen" in the arsenal. It is a safe play, and besides a regular screen, has the highest percentage to be completed.

I would like to see Roy Roundtree figure more in the offense. He hasn't done much this year, and he is a great threat.

Now, as far as Borges, I think he has been very fair trying to use much of what Michigan did last year and assimilating his offensive sets in here and there. My only bitch is that I would like Michigan to use one scheme or the other more consistently. If you are going to line up in the "I", then lets get some rhythm in the running game. It's the only way the play-action will be more effective.

I am sure Borges is running DRob more than he wants, but at least he is using him effectively.

 

[jever4321]

Bam-

I think you make some good points. Denard will probably always be a run threat FIRST, no matter how good his passing gets.

I personally think DRob has regressed a bit in his passing skills. He is trying to force stuff, just to make a big play, and isn't taking his time going through all his progressions. I do think Michigan needs to return using "bubble screen" in the arsenal. It is a safe play, and besides a regular screen, has the highest percentage to be completed.

I would like to see Roy Roundtree figure more in the offense. He hasn't done much this year, and he is a great threat.

Now, as far as Borges, I think he has been very fair trying to use much of what Michigan did last year and assimilating his offensive sets in here and there. My only bitch is that I would like Michigan to use one scheme or the other more consistently. If you are going to line up in the "I", then lets get some rhythm in the running game. It's the only way the play-action will be more effective.

I am sure Borges is running DRob more than he wants, but at least he is using him effectively.

Good to see you posting Ray. I was wondering what your take was on things.

 

[dannydiggler]

BUMP!

 

[wolverine304]

Danny Diggler[/color]]BUMP!

Yeah cause if he can pass on this insane gopher defense he can pass on anybody.

Bring on the packers and steelers.

 

[jever4321]

Gardner looks like he needs work. I was glad to see him get some play.

 

[RABID]

Looks like we answered a lot of questions today.