Diff btwn Lions 0-2 and others

[zyxt9]

While anything is possible, the issue I'm sensing is the "feel" of the team is the biggest difference between the Lions and the other teams who are currently 0-2. Giants, Seahawks, and others know they can win and they've just not done the right things. The Lions, however, haven't done anything and are already completely dejected. The feel of the team is one of utter defeat. Coaches and players won't admit it, but that's what I'm sensing.

I'm not sure if Stafford has lost the confidence from the other players, that might be part of it; however, it just seems to me these coaches do not inspire any hope from these guys. They give the impression that, despite anything they say, they are sitting around their home after practice and games and thinking this is a hopeless coaching staff and the team is going nowhere.

I think this is one of the big reasons so many FAs left after last season too. Players who say they want to be on a winning team don't jump ship from a team that just went 11-5. This coaching staff is quickly destroying this team. Mayhew is part of that equation since he put this staff together.

The other 0-2 teams have confidence in themselves and their coaches to actually still pull out a winning season, potentially even make the playoffs. The Lions body language is one of acceptance that this is going to be a very long season with at most 4 wins ahead of them. If the coaches have completely lost the team, then it would not surprise me to see a second 0-16 season.

The whole thing smells of being a dumpster fire right now, while the fire department is sitting back and saying "let it burn".

 

[brewer229]

These are all big boys, they shouldn't be demoralized by a coach that is boring. If they need their coach to be cheerleaders and give them inspirational speeches about "hanging in there", and "when the going gets tough the tough get going" then they are never going to win. The desire needs to come from within to be great.

After they had the hot head coach of course they were going to go with a guy like Caldwell. When one thing doesn't work, the opposite must be the right way. That is always the line of thinking among bad franchises.

 

[tomdalton22]

I can't tell from looking at them on the sidelines. One thing that is true is the Lions have had a losing culture for decades. They have a tall task ahead of them this week. If they can beat Peyton Manning and the Broncos it will probably go a long way changing the attitudes of the players. If they don't....I really think we are looking at a sub .500 season.

 

[zyxt9]

These are all big boys, they shouldn't be demoralized by a coach that is boring. If they need their coach to be cheerleaders and give them inspirational speeches about "hanging in there", and "when the going gets tough the tough get going" then they are never going to win. The desire needs to come from within to be great.

After they had the hot head coach of course they were going to go with a guy like Caldwell. When one thing doesn't work, the opposite must be the right way. That is always the line of thinking among bad franchises.

There's a difference between being a cheerleader and being a leader. These coaches are cheerleaders, what they completely lack is leadership ability. Huge difference, and don't think players don't feel and understand that difference.

Military history repeatedly has shown how "big boys" can be demoralized and reach a point of defeatism when their leadership is shit. It has happened countless times...and those are guys who literally have their life hanging in the balance. You think football players somehow are better than that? The Civil War, northern armies are completely demoralized until Grant and Sherman come along. WWII, Fredendall is relieved of II Corps and command is given to Patton..HUGE difference resulted. On even a smaller scale, Band of Brothers relayed the rebellion of the Sergeants who refused to follow Captain Sobel. "Big Boys" know when their leadership is terrible, and I'm unaware of any moments where the "Big Boys" were able to "man up" and overcome it. Instead, they grasp the reality of how their leaders suck and they either rebel, goof off, or give up. They do not ever become victors until better leadership is put in charge. So I don't buy into this belief that they are "Big Boys" who solely need to rely on an inner strength in order to achieve success.

 

[LKP]

LOL body language. You guys are the ones with the bad attitude.

 

[zyxt9]

LOL body language. You guys are the ones with the bad attitude.

Yeah, it's one of those things that stats don't provide, well...except for the W-L stat...that one will clue you in also. Combine the W-L with guys who are not just hanging their heads in defeat, but are completely slumped over, shoulders and backs are hanging lower than they should be. Winners who lose a few games still keep their head up, have an energy about them, a confidence. There is none of that in the Lions right now.

 

[LKP]

Lions finish 12-2, 11-3 or 10-4. W/L will be fine.

 

[brewer229]

There's a difference between being a cheerleader and being a leader. These coaches are cheerleaders, what they completely lack is leadership ability. Huge difference, and don't think players don't feel and understand that difference.

Military history repeatedly has shown how "big boys" can be demoralized and reach a point of defeatism when their leadership is shit. It has happened countless times...and those are guys who literally have their life hanging in the balance. You think football players somehow are better than that? The Civil War, northern armies are completely demoralized until Grant and Sherman come along. WWII, Fredendall is relieved of II Corps and command is given to Patton..HUGE difference resulted. On even a smaller scale, Band of Brothers relayed the rebellion of the Sergeants who refused to follow Captain Sobel. "Big Boys" know when their leadership is terrible, and I'm unaware of any moments where the "Big Boys" were able to "man up" and overcome it. Instead, they grasp the reality of how their leaders suck and they either rebel, goof off, or give up. They do not ever become victors until better leadership is put in charge. So I don't buy into this belief that they are "Big Boys" who solely need to rely on an inner strength in order to achieve success.

So basically you are saying only the best coaches will always win. Players are essentially irrelevant.

I always love the war vs playing a game comparisons.

 

[zyxt9]

So basically you are saying only the best coaches will always win. Players are essentially irrelevant.

I always love the war vs playing a game comparisons.

Where did I say players are irrelevant? I was talking about LEADERSHIP. Leadership is found in many aspects of life. YOU brought up the "Big Boys" element, which is where the war comparison came into it...please tell me you do not think the military is a bunch of "Little Boys". War comparisons upset you...how about business or other team sports then, or whatever else that has a group of people competing against another group. It is the Leaders and their ability that has an extremely profound impact on performance, regardless of the type of competition. The more even the talent levels are between the two groups, it is the Leadership who make the plans and put movements in motion that impacts the end result, even though individual efforts make huge impacts at multiple times during the competition.

The best coaches are the best leaders, able to get their players to achieve at the highest level possible. A team that is above average in talent will perform below average with poor leadership. A team with below average talent is capable of performing above average with great leadership. Combining great talent with exceptional leadership yields the highest probability of success. No where in any of this is a comment that players are irrelevant.

 

[johnny2x2x]

The fact that our defense is #30 overall and our offense is #24 overall tells me we have been very very very bad the 1st two weeks. The Denver matchup is a bad one with their animals at DE/OLB. And Peyton will pick us apart.

This could and probably will snow ball very quickly.

And Denver fans are annoying. Have a friend who is the worst Denver fan and he's going to the game, he'll be a pain in the ass for weeks afterwards.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

The fact that our defense is #30 overall and our offense is #24 overall tells me we have been very very very bad the 1st two weeks. The Denver matchup is a bad one with their animals at DE/OLB. And Peyton will pick us apart.

This could and probably will snow ball very quickly.

And Denver fans are annoying. Have a friend who is the worst Denver fan and he's going to the game, he'll be a pain in the ass for weeks afterwards.

The Denver matchup is a bad one. And I agree with Tom on one thing, going 0-3 almost asssures we finish sub .500. If you can't get up for your first home game after starting 0-2 on the road, you shouldn't be playing professional sports! I believe you need a head coach that is a leader....that's a part of it, however, if you need your coach to be the sole reason that you get up for a game you've lost already.

this team needs a leader! It doesn't matter what side of the ball they play on or if it's from the head coach or a Cordinator or the 53rd man on the roster......someone needs to step up and take control of the reigns.

On the flipside, getting a W against a good Denver team at home could be exactly what this team needs. I am not convinced that this is a cakewalk for Denver. The Lions will have to play really well and take care of the ball, but a little bit of pressure and a lucky bounce going our way for once could give us our first win!

 

[tomdalton22]

The Denver matchup is a bad one. And I agree with Tom on one thing, going 0-3 almost asssures we finish sub .500. If you can't get up for your first home game after starting 0-2 on the road, you shouldn't be playing professional sports! I believe you need a head coach that is a leader....that's a part of it, however, if you need your coach to be the sole reason that you get up for a game you've lost already.

this team needs a leader! It doesn't matter what side of the ball they play on or if it's from the head coach or a Cordinator or the 53rd man on the roster......someone needs to step up and take control of the reigns.

On the flipside, getting a W against a good Denver team at home could be exactly what this team needs. I am not convinced that this is a cakewalk for Denver. The Lions will have to play really well and take care of the ball, but a little bit of pressure and a lucky bounce going our way for once could give us our first win!

I fully expect the Lions to play their best game of the season this Sunday. I also feel if Denver brings their A game the Lions' best won't be enough to win.

 

[brewer229]

Where did I say players are irrelevant? I was talking about LEADERSHIP. Leadership is found in many aspects of life. YOU brought up the "Big Boys" element, which is where the war comparison came into it...please tell me you do not think the military is a bunch of "Little Boys". War comparisons upset you...how about business or other team sports then, or whatever else that has a group of people competing against another group. It is the Leaders and their ability that has an extremely profound impact on performance, regardless of the type of competition. The more even the talent levels are between the two groups, it is the Leadership who make the plans and put movements in motion that impacts the end result, even though individual efforts make huge impacts at multiple times during the competition.

The best coaches are the best leaders, able to get their players to achieve at the highest level possible. A team that is above average in talent will perform below average with poor leadership. A team with below average talent is capable of performing above average with great leadership. Combining great talent with exceptional leadership yields the highest probability of success. No where in any of this is a comment that players are irrelevant.

In business there are plenty of people that produce great results with a poor leadership. Some people are happy just to do what the boss says and collect their pay check. Some people will challenge the boss and rise above them. Some will hang their head and talk about how it is unfair that Johnny two cubicles down has a better boss than him so he gets more opportunities.

I'm not saying leadership and coaches are irrelevant. The best player will always make more than the best coach in the NFL. There are more than 100 players that make more the belichick this year. It comes down to players, if you are broken by a coach well you probably aren't going to have a very good team.

Colts did pretty well with this guy as a coach.

 

[zyxt9]

I honestly think Denver could start their K at QB and win by 3 TDs. Manning will have them up by 4 TDs minimum by halftime and the Lions will once again have the nation screaming about why the NFL schedules them for primetime and Thanksgiving. This game will also convince NFL and the networks to rework their Sunday games so they can be flexed after week 2 in the future. This game would be flexed out from Sunday night if it could, and I'm sure the networks and NFL feel the same.

 

[tomdalton22]

I honestly think Denver could start their K at QB and win by 3 TDs. Manning will have them up by 4 TDs minimum by halftime and the Lions will once again have the nation screaming about why the NFL schedules them for primetime and Thanksgiving. This game will also convince NFL and the networks to rework their Sunday games so they can be flexed after week 2 in the future. This game would be flexed out from Sunday night if it could, and I'm sure the networks and NFL feel the same.

I didn't realize this was an 8:30 game. That helps the Lions. The drunk Lions fans will be really loud. That said...if Denver jumps to an early lead....the drunks could turn on the Lions!

 

[Mitchrapp]

Players always have a reason to play well. The problem, IMO, we have players who aren't as good as some of you think they are. The past two years it's "very talented team." The team has some talented players but too many stiffs. The team is not talented. It's not undeforming. They just aren't one of the better teams.

On a side note Denver's OLINE isn't protecting Peyton much. He's getting hit more than usual this season.

 

[detrisin]

Players always have a reason to play well. The problem, IMO, we have players who aren't as good as some of you think they are. The past two years it's "very talented team." The team has some talented players but too many stiffs. The team is not talented. It's not undeforming. They just aren't one of the better teams.

On a side note Denver's OLINE isn't protecting Peyton much. He's getting hit more than usual this season.

And, Denver is not running the ball well. Their defense is carrying them right now. Wade Phillips is a helluva D coordinator. Just don't ask him to run the show as head coach.

 

[biggunsbob]

Caldwell has a pattern of failing after starting well..

 

[Mitchrapp]

Caldwell has a pattern of failing after starting well..

He's 0-2. Uh oh.

 

[Mitchrapp]

4 rushing first downs, opponents 17. 9 for 23 3rd down %. Opponents 13 for 25. YPA 6.4, opponents 9.3. TOP 25:21 - 34:39. Though we are a perfect 2 for 2 on 4th downs.