DPS Sick out

[Michchamp]

They have about 2 months to figure something out...which they will. Do your job. Not showing up for work isn't going to help the city "find the money"

Would you continue to show up for work if your boss said "there's no money to pay you, but keep coming in until management figures something out."???

 

[tomdalton22]

Would you continue to show up for work if your boss said "there's no money to pay you, but keep coming in until management figures something out."???

Obviously it depends on the situation. If my boss told me that he was looking ahead at the financials and come the end of June they may not have the funds to pay me but they are working on a resolution...I would keep working but I would be looking for more stable employment.

 

[Spartanmack]

Would you continue to show up for work if your boss said "there's no money to pay you, but keep coming in until management figures something out."???

wouldn't you show up for work if your boss was paying you? shouldn't they show up for work until they're not getting paid or do you think it's appropriate that they are protesting the possibility that DPS might run out of money? I get that they're teachers and they only work 9 months for 12 months pay and the school year ends before they run out of money (if they do), but are we supposed to stand in solidarity with these people, to the detriment of Detroit kids because there might not be enough money to cover their EXTRA 2.5 months paid vacation they get every year? Seems a bit much, especially considering that they will probably get paid in arrears for any missed payroll when this mess is sorted out.

 

[sggatecl]

...to cover their EXTRA 2.5 months paid vacation they get every year?

It's not extra, it's deferred. Stop trying to paint it as some awesome bonus. That is money they're earning now and money they've already worked for.

 

[brewer229]

wouldn't you show up for work if your boss was paying you? shouldn't they show up for work until they're not getting paid or do you think it's appropriate that they are protesting the possibility that DPS might run out of money? I get that they're teachers and they only work 9 months for 12 months pay and the school year ends before they run out of money (if they do), but are we supposed to stand in solidarity with these people, to the detriment of Detroit kids because there might not be enough money to cover their EXTRA 2.5 months paid vacation they get every year? Seems a bit much, especially considering that they will probably get paid in arrears for any missed payroll when this mess is sorted out.

Most schools allow their employees to be paid out over 9 months or 12 months. Depending on when their contract year ends they could not be paid for service they provided (if they chose to be paid out over 12 months). Their salary is based on the school days they work, they don't get paid for the summer time they are not in class.

Also what leverage do you have once school is out?

 

[tomdalton22]

Most schools allow their employees to be paid out over 9 months or 12 months. Depending on when their contract year ends they could not be paid for service they provided (if they chose to be paid out over 12 months). Their salary is based on the school days they work, they don't get paid for the summer time they are not in class.

Also what leverage do you have once school is out?

They would have the following school year...tell the city that they will not show up to work in late August if they don't get their back pay. That is IF they didn't get something worked out before June 30th.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's not extra, it's deferred. Stop trying to paint it as some awesome bonus. That is money they're earning now and money they've already worked for.

they work 9 months a year and get paid for 12. They get health insurance benefits for 12 months - cash compensation is no different than other benefits. We don't compare their compensation to other professions by the hours worked, we look at their annual compensation. Their comp is not grossed up to an annualized rate when talking about how little they make - nobody adjusts those numbers to reflect the actual hours worked or what their annual rate is based on the 9 months of work they put in. They get an extra 2.5 months vacation every year and it is a significant benefit that the rest of the working men and women in the US don't get. Stop trying to paint it as something less than the awesome perk that it is.

 

[Michchamp]

they work 9 months a year and get paid for 12. They get health insurance benefits for 12 months - cash compensation is no different than other benefits. We don't compare their compensation to other professions by the hours worked, we look at their annual compensation. Their comp is not grossed up to an annualized rate when talking about how little they make - nobody adjusts those numbers to reflect the actual hours worked or what their annual rate is based on the 9 months of work they put in. They get an extra 2.5 months vacation every year and it is a significant benefit that the rest of the working men and women in the US don't get. Stop trying to paint it as something less than the awesome perk that it is.

you typed an awful lot of words there to say nothing at all. but hey, an incoherent meaningless response is still a response, right?

 

[Spartanmack]

you typed an awful lot of words there to say nothing at all. but hey, an incoherent meaningless response is still a response, right?

The point is quite clear but not surprised you don't understand it - or more likely do understand and can't refute it so you post some lame attempt to dismiss it offhand. Talk to me when you post the data that backs up your "racist spending discrepancy" claim that you've been avoiding, changing the subject, talking around but not retracting...

 

[biggunsbob]

Looking up the average teacher salary in michigan and it says it had dropped from around 61 thousand to 56 thousand but that has to be for the most experienced teachers because starting salaries from each state are lower .
Teachers deserve summer off but that is my opinion as I believe they have a difficult job having to put up with a lot of different kids. Pretty hard balancing act for teachers.



http://www.nea.org/home/2012-2013-average-starting-teacher-salary.html

 

[sggatecl]

they work 9 months a year and get paid for 12. They get health insurance benefits for 12 months - cash compensation is no different than other benefits. We don't compare their compensation to other professions by the hours worked, we look at their annual compensation. Their comp is not grossed up to an annualized rate when talking about how little they make - nobody adjusts those numbers to reflect the actual hours worked or what their annual rate is based on the 9 months of work they put in.

Much of what you're saying is completely irrelevant. They do not get paid for 12 months work. They get paid for 9 months work and it is deferred or spread out over 12 months. If you worked Jan-May and all the money you deferred all of the sudden isn't getting paid to you, you're getting screwed. I couldn't possibly put that in simpler terms. If you can't wrap your head around such an easy concept, I don't know what to tell you. I won't beat my head against the wall that is your skull like michchamp.

They get an extra 2.5 months vacation every year and it is a significant benefit that the rest of the working men and women in the US don't get. Stop trying to paint it as something less than the awesome perk that it is.

Yes, getting the summer off is in awesome perk but that wasn't what you said at all initially. You called it a paid vacation and that is, in fact, wrong.

 

[biggunsbob]

Teaching is pretty demanding if you ask me. I am sure some districts are harder then others .

 

[Spartanmack]

Much of what you're saying is completely irrelevant. They do not get paid for 12 months work. They get paid for 9 months work and it is deferred or spread out over 12 months. If you worked Jan-May and all the money you deferred all of the sudden isn't getting paid to you, you're getting screwed. I couldn't possibly put that in simpler terms. If you can't wrap your head around such an easy concept, I don't know what to tell you. I won't beat my head against the wall that is your skull like michchamp.

It's definitely not irrelevant. One of the biggest perks and draws to being a teacher is 3 months off every year. They negotiate a pay package for the year which includes medical, dental, vision and other benefits over 12 months. It's not a stretch to view their cash compensation the same way, particularly when that is how it is paid out - it's essentially a paid vacation. And even if you were right, they are still getting paid - that is not in dispute. They're getting paid, they should show up for work. Like Tom says, it's not definite that they won't get paid so they are having a "sick out" based on the possibility that the district might run out of money. The kids in Detroit Public Schools deserve better than to be pawns for a bunch of lazy crybabies worried that the MIGHT not get paid. I can't put it in any simpler terms than that. If you can't wrap your head around a concept as simple as "you're getting paid, go to work" I know exactly what to tell you - you're not smart.

Yes, getting the summer off is in awesome perk but that wasn't what you said at all initially. You called it a paid vacation and that is, in fact, wrong.

Is it "in fact" wrong? When you negotiate a compensation package with your employer and you get a salary of $150k, medical, dental, vision, disability insurance, etc plus 6 weeks vacation, did you negotiate a 46 week salary and benefits package and 6 weeks off without pay? Of course not, you negotiated compensation for the year and during that year you will take 6 weeks vacation during which you will continue to receive you salary and benefits coverage. How it's paid - whether over 9 months or 12 is irrelevant, it's just another term that is negotiated. You're still an employee of the school district during those vacation months, it's not like you get laid off every summer and rehired every fall.

 

[Spartanmack]

Most schools allow their employees to be paid out over 9 months or 12 months. Depending on when their contract year ends they could not be paid for service they provided (if they chose to be paid out over 12 months). Their salary is based on the school days they work, they don't get paid for the summer time they are not in class.

Also what leverage do you have once school is out?

What leverage do they have now? It's not like the district is only running out of salary money - they're running out of money. Period. Going on strike isn't going to draw water from the stone. If the schools really go bankrupt, don't they become the highest, or one of the highest priority creditors, first in line to recover lost compensation? And that's the most extreme case. It's more likely that the money they would have received while on vacation would just be deferred a bit longer - it's not like DPS obligation to pay wages disappears when they miss a payroll. And it's even more likely that the problem is resolved before they actually run out of money. They will recover the money owed them - worst case is they have to wait a little longer. So buck up and go to work, at least while you're still getting paid.

 

[Spartanmack]

Looking up the average teacher salary in michigan and it says it had dropped from around 61 thousand to 56 thousand but that has to be for the most experienced teachers because starting salaries from each state are lower .
Teachers deserve summer off but that is my opinion as I believe they have a difficult job having to put up with a lot of different kids. Pretty hard balancing act for teachers.

http://www.nea.org/home/2012-2013-average-starting-teacher-salary.html

I think when they say the "average salary is $56k" they mean the average salary is $56k. So more experienced teachers will earn salaries above the average and the less experienced teachers will earn salaries below the average.

 

[biggunsbob]

I think when they say the "average salary is $56k" they mean the average salary is $56k. So more experienced teachers will earn salaries above the average and the less experienced teachers will earn salaries below the average.

I do not disagree with that but I disagree with you in regards to how hard teaching is. I think it can be very taxing being a teacher. Maybe they should go to year round schooling like in some states?

 

[tinselwolverine]

I do not disagree with that but I disagree with you in regards to how hard teaching is. I think it can be very taxing being a teacher. Maybe they should go to year round schooling like in some states?

The kids get the same amount of Breaktime as traditional but it's spread out across the entire year.

 

[KAWDUP]

You're still an employee of the school district during those vacation months, it's not like you get laid off every summer and rehired every fall.

Is this true? It has been so long since I was close enough to it, so I can't be sure it is still this way, but I have several teachers in the family, and they used to have a choice. Collect unemployment for 2.5 months or get a summer job to supplement the income. Assumption coming -> It may be because they weren't offered the choice of 9 or 12 months. 9 is all you got.

Not that I disagree with the rest of your premise, but when said the above the way you did, it struck chord of memory.

E.g. Had an uncle that worked as high school teacher, and he worked for Ford on the assembly line for the summer, making nearly the same or more than they made as a teacher for those 3 months.

Sorry for interjecting, what I am saying may mean nothing at all to the argument, but still wanted to chime it. :*)

 

[sggatecl]

Is this true? It has been so long since I was close enough to it, so I can't be sure it is still this way, but I have several teachers in the family, and they used to have a choice. Collect unemployment for 2.5 months or get a summer job to supplement the income. Assumption coming -> It may be because they weren't offered the choice of 9 or 12 months. 9 is all you got.

Not that I disagree with the rest of your premise, but when said the above the way you did, it struck chord of memory.

E.g. Had an uncle that worked as high school teacher, and he worked for Ford on the assembly line for the summer, making nearly the same or more than they made as a teacher for those 3 months.

Sorry for interjecting, what I am saying may mean nothing at all to the argument, but still wanted to chime it. :*)

Some school districts do not give the option of spreading out their salary for the 12 months. It's 9 months, take it or leave it.

 

[Spartanmack]

I do not disagree with that but I disagree with you in regards to how hard teaching is. I think it can be very taxing being a teacher. Maybe they should go to year round schooling like in some states?

I haven't said anything about how difficult I think teaching is. All I've said is, they're getting paid, they should show up to work.