DURR it's cold outside there can't be no global warming or hurrrrr

[Spartanmack]

Same. High bar.

The worst offender is outspending us on green energy tech like 2:1 or 3:1 I think. They aren't doing it because of their extreme wealth and wastefulness or to placate our left wing.

I don't follow your logic at all. You can look at it per country or per capita or scaled to economic output and get different rankings.

maybe not, but they could be doing it to profit from them. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is they're building this stuff for export, not spending money to transform their own infrastructure. Maybe it's changed but in first decade through at least the middle of the second of this century, China was adding a coal fired plant a week and they're still spending massively on rail to transport coal from remote parts of the country to the cities as well as for export. I don't see them abandoning coal based production that's less than 20 years old to build solar and wind farms.

 

[Gulo Blue]

maybe not, but they could be doing it to profit from them. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is they're building this stuff for export, not spending money to transform their own infrastructure. Maybe it's changed but in first decade through at least the middle of the second of this century, China was adding a coal fired plant a week and they're still spending massively on rail to transport coal from remote parts of the country to the cities as well as for export. I don't see them abandoning coal based production that's less than 20 years old to build solar and wind farms.

My understanding is that they grew so fast at the turn f the century, they did both. Ramping up fossil fuel use while outspending us on green energy. But since then, I think the curve of how much of their energy is coal has flattened or is dropping, and they've passed us on green energy as a percentage of total energy.

 

[Spartanmack]

My understanding is that they grew so fast at the turn f the century, they did both. Ramping up fossil fuel use while outspending us on green energy. But since then, I think the curve of how much of their energy is coal has flattened or is dropping, and they've passed us on green energy as a percentage of total energy.

it's possible, but then there's the problem of trusting any data that comes out of the CCP - when I followed it more closely, their GDP data was more consistent and predictable than GE earnings under Jack Welch or returns for Madoff Securities, LLC (which is to say, it was manipulated, or made up). And, if it's the case that they're among the world leaders in green energy, why do they lobby so hard for (and get) exemptions from climate treaties and accords?

 

[Gulo Blue]

it's possible, but then there's the problem of trusting any data that comes out of the CCP - when I followed it more closely, their GDP data was more consistent and predictable than GE earnings under Jack Welch or returns for Madoff Securities, LLC (which is to say, it was manipulated, or made up). And, if it's the case that they're among the world leaders in green energy, why do they lobby so hard for (and get) exemptions from climate treaties and accords?

Because it plays well with the Chinese political base equivalent to you.

 

[Spartanmack]

Because it plays well with the Chinese political base equivalent to you.

that base would rather the CCP just reject the treaties and accords and tell the French and all those Scandanavian countries that think they matter to get stuffed rather than whining like little girls until they get special treatment.

 

[tigermud]

Unprepared Texans Line Up Outside Grocery Store Amid Winter Storm

https://youtu.be/lA46v_aMidQ

https://banthis.tv/watch?id=602b16b2d39d0a09315f31bb

 

[tigermud]

 

[tomdalton22]

I made the huge mistake of clicking on the infowars link.

This was the first line.

This is but a glimpse of your future in Joe Biden's America

A winter storm in Texas is what we have in store in Biden's America? What garbage.

As far as the people emptying the stores...people are stupid.

 

[tigermud]

I made the huge mistake of clicking on the infowars link.

This was the first line.

This is but a glimpse of your future in Joe Biden's America

A winter storm in Texas is what we have in store in Biden's America? What garbage.

As far as the people emptying the stores...people are stupid.

It’s explained further in his video where that came from. I’ll replace the sensationalized IW headline with a tucker Carlson clip if that triggers you less

 

[tinselwolverine]

It?s explained further in his video where that came from. I?ll replace the sensationalized IW headline with a tucker Carlson clip if that triggers you less

Damn I wanted to see that! It sounded funny.

 

[tigermud]

Damn I wanted to see that! It sounded funny.

I left the second link for ya, it’s just a long winded version of the same though. And you won’t listen cuz it’s too long.

 

[Spartanmack]

Unprepared Texans Line Up Outside Grocery Store Amid Winter Storm

https://youtu.be/lA46v_aMidQ

https://banthis.tv/watch?id=602b16b2d39d0a09315f31bb

According to this piece, 25% of all electricity generated in Texas comes from wind power. When 25% of your production goes down all at once and almost instantly, it’s safe to say the shortage has at least something to do with wind turbines.

 

[sggatecl]

Here is the report that was compiled after this exact same thing happened in 2011...

https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf

They pinpointed exactly where things went wrong and how to make sure it didn’t happen again. A lot of the measures they recommend are comically cheap and easy, but none of it was done. This is negligence, not some ‘freak’ storm that nobody could have predicted.

Edit: from page 196. “Many generators failed to adequately prepare for winter, including the following: failed or inadequate heat traces, missing or inadequate windbreaks, inadequate insulation and lagging (metal covering for insulation), failure to have or to maintain heating elements and heat lamps in instrument cabinets, failure to train operators and maintenance personnel on winter preparations, lack of fuel switching training and drills...”

Heat lamps!

 

[sggatecl]

According to this piece, 25% of all electricity generated in Texas comes from wind power. When 25% of your production goes down all at once and almost instantly, it?s safe to say the shortage has at least something to do with wind turbines.

As of Monday afternoon, 26 of the 34 gigawatts in ERCOT?s grid that had gone offline were from ?thermal? sources, meaning gas and coal. The system?s total installed capacity in the system, Power magazine?s Sonal Patel noted, is around 77.2 GW. Wind and solar power, meanwhile, produced near or even above planned capacity, according to energy analyst Jesse Jenkins, as only small amounts of wind and solar are utilized in peaking conditions. Wind turbines did indeed freeze, and did eventually underperform. But so did natural gas infrastructure, and to a far greater degree. That proved to be a much larger problem since it makes up such a huge proportion of the state?s power supply in extreme weather.

 

[Spartanmack]

As of Monday afternoon, 26 of the 34 gigawatts in ERCOT’s grid that had gone offline were from “thermal” sources, meaning gas and coal. The system’s total installed capacity in the system, Power magazine’s Sonal Patel noted, is around 77.2 GW. Wind and solar power, meanwhile, produced near or even above planned capacity, according to energy analyst Jesse Jenkins, as only small amounts of wind and solar are utilized in peaking conditions. Wind turbines did indeed freeze, and did eventually underperform. But so did natural gas infrastructure, and to a far greater degree. That proved to be a much larger problem since it makes up such a huge proportion of the state’s power supply in extreme weather.

It’s winter in Texas - according to one of your links expected demand is around 59GW - much less than the 77.2GW system wide capacity. Also the data being quoted is hour by hour snapshots and it seems to indicate wind is providing above expectations at points in time and says it underperformed at others. It also seems to indicate the better performance is vs expectations, not capacity. It sounds like those expectations are low bc it’s not base-load generation and a lot of peak production could be offline because of lower winter power demands (could also be because of expected wind patterns this time of year). Wind is peak only and even then only when the wind blows. In short, unless I’m reading this wrong, this doesn’t disprove the assertion that there were big problems with frozen turbines. It could be the case that wind turbines that were in-service produced better than expected (intermittently) while off line turbines couldn’t be brought online to fill in the gaps. I didn’t read the entire thread but it’s not clear to me that it refutes the claims about wind turbine issues.

 

[sggatecl]

I didn’t read the entire thread but it’s not clear to me that it refutes the claims about wind turbine issues.

It wasn't meant to refute claims about wind turbine issues. The point, in conjunction with the post prior, was to show that the problem is much bigger than 'wind bad, gas/coal good' like so many are trying to portray. This was a failure of their entire system, despite warnings and prior similar issues going unaddressed.

 

[Spartanmack]

It wasn't meant to refute claims about wind turbine issues. The point, in conjunction with the post prior, was to show that the problem is much bigger than 'wind bad, gas/coal good' like so many are trying to portray. This was a failure of their entire system, despite warnings and prior similar issues going unaddressed.

I don’t know that it does that or that people are trying to say “wind bad, gas/coal good.” The point is there are a shitload of problems with wind and solar that nobody seems to know and we’re not being told about - they’re not this panacea to solve all our problems. And the point of my post in this case it’s very possible that wind was a bigger problem than those tweets indicate - the expectations for wind generation could be very low because so much of wind capacity is offline.

The fact that there were big problems with gas and coal generation doesn’t disprove the assertion that a shift to wind/solar would make our grid or grids less reliable, not more. I don’t think that’s really in dispute by any serious person. Yet the loudest voices on one side want to eliminate fossil fuels - they need to have it pounded into their heads that it’s not possible. We can’t store electricity on a massive scale and wind only generates power when the wind is blowing and solar only generates power when the sun shines.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's not difficult to understand the nature of wind power, that it's intermittent and doesn't relieve the need for some other base capacity that you rely on. Nobody would ever build a system that requires wind to be blowing all the time and this storm isn't the first time wind power hasn't produced - that's a normal thing for wind power to do. But while wind power is only a supplement to the grid, it's profitable, creates jobs, enhances energy independence, and is good for the environment. You get what renewable energy out of it you can when you can get it, and that's worth doing. Really simple idea. I don't believe for a second most of these people still complaining about its unreliability haven't been presented with this information or that it's too complicated for them to understand. It's just political bullshit painting a picture that doesn't reflect reality.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Sometimes you catch fish, sometimes you don't, so we shouldn't use them as a food source.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's not difficult to understand the nature of wind power, that it's intermittent and doesn't relieve the need for some other base capacity that you rely on. Nobody would ever build a system that requires wind to be blowing all the time and this storm isn't the first time wind power hasn't produced - that's a normal thing for wind power to do. But while wind power is only a supplement to the grid, it's profitable, creates jobs, enhances energy independence, and is good for the environment. You get what renewable energy out of it you can when you can get it, and that's worth doing. Really simple idea. I don't believe for a second most of these people still complaining about its unreliability haven't been presented with this information or that it's too complicated for them to understand. It's just political bullshit painting a picture that doesn't reflect reality.

It's not difficult and yet, many people are unaware and want to spend billions if not trillions getting off of fossil fuels - making that change would make the grid less not more reliable. "Get what you can" may be a really simple idea, but that's not the idea or the message. The people complaining about the unreliability aren't the loudest voices in the room, they're being drowned out by the people complaining that we have to go completely renewable by yesterday.

Sometimes you catch fish, sometimes you don't, so we shouldn't use them as a food source.

Everyone knows hunting cows is far more reliable. It's far more important and would be far more productive to get the renewable fanatics to get on board with nuclear power baseload generation.