Esiason on Stafford

[tonyballs]

This is pretty much spot on to how I feel as well. Its hard to blame Stafford for 'bad' long ball numbers when you have had zero running game your entire career, and can have the safeties sit back...but at the same time, Stafford seems to miss an open receiver (10+ yards away) at least once a game.

I still would take Wilson over Stafford, even though I dont think the gap between the two is as big as some on here...but Im also a big homer.

I would love to see Wilson with our offense. You think he ran for his life in Seattle?! Oh shit! No running game, no OLine....lol. It would be just as disastrous and maybe more.

 

[dubbsco]

Here's the problem with that argument. Those weapons were made in part by Wilson. Baldwin was undrafted, Kearse was undrafted, Lockett's a third rounder.

They have thrown first round and second round material at Stafford in the form of Pettigrew, Ebron, Calvin. Broyles, Abdullah. Yeah, he's had some bad luck. But do you think Stafford could have made those guys on Seattle who they are?

Quite honestly, I'm not seeing how Seattle's WRs are FAR better. I'd be willing to say it's a wash, but that's a stretch. Calvin is worth more than any three of those guys.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Booger, you think Stafford has had better options on the outside than Wilson? He's had the likes of Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse, Tyler Lockett, and Golden Tate. Those guys aren't even in the same stratosphere as Calvin.

I think Stafford has clearly had the best weapon.......Wilson has had the better overall WR corp.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Here's the problem with that argument. Those weapons were made in part by Wilson. Baldwin was undrafted, Kearse was undrafted, Lockett's a third rounder.

They have thrown first round and second round material at Stafford in the form of Pettigrew, Ebron, Calvin. Broyles, Abdullah. Yeah, he's had some bad luck. But do you think Stafford could have made those guys on Seattle who they are?

Where they are drafted is completely irrelevant to how good they are. Are you telling me you think Ebron and Pettigrew are better than Jimmy Graham and Zach Miller??

I'd take Baldwin, Kearse and Lockett in a fucking flash over Broyles, Titus and Burelson......

Does the QB come in to play........of course......but Wilson isn't MAKING these guys either. They're good players.

 

[tomdalton22]

Ohhhh......I disagree there. Stafford has had the better WEAPON ......not weapons. Do you not remember the piles of shit the Lions ran out there opposite CJ??

Guys that played a key role......not just on the team.....

Golden Tate
Kris Durham
Burelson
Titus
Pettigrew
Ebron
Heller
Mike Thomas
Ryan Broyles
Kevin Ogletree
Jeremy Ross

Seattle -

Baldwin
Tate
Tyler Lockett
Kearse
Jimmy Graham
Percy Harvin
Luke Willson
Ricardo Lockett
Zach Miller
Sindey Rice

Minus CJ and Tate (because he's played 2 years for both) the players Wilson has had to throw to are FAR BETTER than what Stafford has had.

So yes, CJ is easily the best player of all of them.....but Seattle has CLEARLY had the better targets the last 4 years.

I don't see your logic here. Both teams primarily run a 2 WR set. Over the past 4 years Stafford has had CJ & Tate as his primary targets 75% of the time. Wilson has had Baldwin & Tate 75% of the time. The rest of the guys on the list...other than Jimmy Graham....not much there.

I think having one of the best WR in the league for the past 4 years along with Tate for 2 trumps anything Wilson has had.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I don't see your logic here. Both teams primarily run a 2 WR set. Over the past 4 years Stafford has had CJ & Tate as his primary targets 75% of the time. Wilson has had Baldwin & Tate 75% of the time. The rest of the guys on the list...other than Jimmy Graham....not much there.

I think having one of the best WR in the league for the past 4 years along with Tate for 2 trumps anything Wilson has had.

You seem to leave out the fact that if Detroit is in a two WR set there is NO fear of a running game and we either have Pettigrew or Ebron in the game.

Seattle has a HUGE threat in the running game and they're throwing out Graham or Willson.

If you're playing Detroit in that scenario.....your only true concern is CJ......they can play a 7 or 8 man box single everyone else.

In Seattle.....you're looking at an 8 or 9 man box and you sure as shit better worry about Lockett or Graham.

Those are MASSIVE differences.

 

[tomdalton22]

You seem to leave out the fact that if Detroit is in a two WR set there is NO fear of a running game and we either have Pettigrew or Ebron in the game.

Seattle has a HUGE threat in the running game and they're throwing out Graham or Willson.

If you're playing Detroit in that scenario.....your only true concern is CJ......they can play a 7 or 8 man box single everyone else.

In Seattle.....you're looking at an 8 or 9 man box and you sure as shit better worry about Lockett or Graham.

Those are MASSIVE differences.

You also have to worry about Wilson extending plays with his legs which allows his WRs to get open.

Bottom line the combo of CJ and Tate are better than any receiving threats Wilson has had to work with. Hell, Tate might be the best WR Wilson has had and he was Stafford's #2

 

[boogerlovejoy]

You also have to worry about Wilson extending plays with his legs which allows his WRs to get open.

Bottom line the combo of CJ and Tate are better than any receiving threats Wilson has had to work with. Hell, Tate might be the best WR Wilson has had and he was Stafford's #2

It's not that simple......Seattle WR's aren't seeing the same coverages. Nobody is arguing that Calvin is clearly the best WR between them all.

Seattle has weapons all over the field that have to be accounted for AND a running game.

Detroit has one player. As good as CJ is/was........as a DC.....its much harder to game plan for a powerful running game and a QB that has weapons all over the field.

 

[tonyballs]

Now Detroit has more weapons than Seattle???? This is getting better by the minute!! Wooooooooo!!

 

[brewer229]

Ohhhh......I disagree there. Stafford has had the better WEAPON ......not weapons. Do you not remember the piles of shit the Lions ran out there opposite CJ??

Guys that played a key role......not just on the team.....

Golden Tate
Kris Durham
Burelson
Titus
Pettigrew
Ebron
Heller
Mike Thomas
Ryan Broyles
Kevin Ogletree
Jeremy Ross

Seattle -

Baldwin
Tate
Tyler Lockett
Kearse
Jimmy Graham
Percy Harvin
Luke Willson
Ricardo Lockett
Zach Miller
Sindey Rice

Minus CJ and Tate (because he's played 2 years for both) the players Wilson has had to throw to are FAR BETTER than what Stafford has had.

So yes, CJ is easily the best player of all of them.....but Seattle has CLEARLY had the better targets the last 4 years.

Lets do a comparison, lets look at the top 3 WRs, the TE. Top 3 WRs will be based on the number of balls thrown their way for that year:

2015:
#1 WR: Det-CJ Sea-Baldwin. Adv: Detroit
#2 WR: Det-Tate Sea-Kearse. Adv: Detroit
#3 WR: Det-Moore Sea-Lockett Adv: Sea
TE: Det: Ebron Sea:Graham Adv: Sea


So tied 2-2. However with the sheer number of attempts the #1 and #2 WR receiver you have to weight importance to those positions. So Detroit wins the 2015 battle of the weapons. Plus the Lions also had Riddick. The next best option for Seattle after the 4 above was Fred Jackson.

2014:
#1 WR: Det-CJ Sea-Baldwin. Adv: Detroit
#2 WR: Det-Tate Sea-Kearse. Adv: Detroit
#3 WR: Det-Ross Sea-Richardson Adv: Even
TE: Det: Ebron Sea:Richardson Adv: Sea

So Lions up 2-1, again with #1 and #2 clear advantage. Detroit wins the 2014 battle of the receiving weapons.

2013:
#1 WR: Det-CJ Sea-Tate. Adv: Detroit
#2 WR: Det-Durham Sea-Baldwin. Adv: Sea
#3 WR: Det-Burleson Sea-Kearse Adv: Even
TE: Det: Pettigrew Sea:Miller Adv: Even

1 to 1. #1 WR is more important than #2 WR. So i suppose give the win to Detroit. Although both didn't sport anything very impressive

2012:
#1 WR: Det-CJ Sea-Rice. Adv: Det
#2 WR: Det-Young Sea-Tate. Adv: Sea
#3 WR: Det-Burleson Sea-Baldwin Adv: Sea
TE: Det: Pettigrew Sea:Miller Adv: Det

What a sorry bunch detroit from #2 on. CJ was all worldly and gained more yards than Seattle's top 3 options combined. Still probably advantage to Seattle.

So the 3 most recent years you would probably give to Detroit as far as receiving options.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Lets do a comparison, lets look at the top 3 WRs, the TE. Top 3 WRs will be based on the number of balls thrown their way for that year:

2015:
#1 WR: Det-CJ Sea-Baldwin. Adv: Detroit
#2 WR: Det-Tate Sea-Kearse. Adv: Detroit
#3 WR: Det-Moore Sea-Lockett Adv: Sea
TE: Det: Ebron Sea:Graham Adv: Sea


So tied 2-2. However with the sheer number of attempts the #1 and #2 WR receiver you have to weight importance to those positions. So Detroit wins the 2015 battle of the weapons. Plus the Lions also had Riddick. The next best option for Seattle after the 4 above was Fred Jackson.

2014:
#1 WR: Det-CJ Sea-Baldwin. Adv: Detroit
#2 WR: Det-Tate Sea-Kearse. Adv: Detroit
#3 WR: Det-Ross Sea-Richardson Adv: Even
TE: Det: Ebron Sea:Richardson Adv: Sea

So Lions up 2-1, again with #1 and #2 clear advantage. Detroit wins the 2014 battle of the receiving weapons.

2013:
#1 WR: Det-CJ Sea-Tate. Adv: Detroit
#2 WR: Det-Durham Sea-Baldwin. Adv: Sea
#3 WR: Det-Burleson Sea-Kearse Adv: Even
TE: Det: Pettigrew Sea:Miller Adv: Even

1 to 1. #1 WR is more important than #2 WR. So i suppose give the win to Detroit. Although both didn't sport anything very impressive

2012:
#1 WR: Det-CJ Sea-Rice. Adv: Det
#2 WR: Det-Young Sea-Tate. Adv: Sea
#3 WR: Det-Burleson Sea-Baldwin Adv: Sea
TE: Det: Pettigrew Sea:Miller Adv: Det

What a sorry bunch detroit from #2 on. CJ was all worldly and gained more yards than Seattle's top 3 options combined. Still probably advantage to Seattle.

So the 3 most recent years you would probably give to Detroit as far as receiving options.

I'm unsure as to why you are just using targets as a measuring stick when talking about talent? Detroit throws a LOT more often so of course they will have more targets.

In 2013 Harry Douglas had more targets than Jordy Nelson........so in your argument Harry Douglas is the better WR. See how that logic might be flawed??

 

[brewer229]

I'm unsure as to why you are just using targets as a measuring stick when talking about talent?

To show which players received the most amount of throws to decide who was the #1 target, #2 Target etc.. After that I used a combo of stats and opinion of talent to see who was better at each position for that year.

When Harvin played one game, saw 1 ball come his way for an entire year..should that be considered more talent on the field for Seattle? he wasn't on the field. So I looked at players that were on the field the most.

 

[jdeb]

You wont see me blaming the loss of CJ for any glitches. Gotta admit tho....gonna suck without CJ there but Stafford has proven that he can ball without Calvin. I think he'll be fine. Especially if they address the OLine and WR position through the draft.

He should be OK. I agree we got to get at least a tackle, center, and a WR in this draft. Swanson looked pretty bad last year.

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