EXACTLY Why Shoelace Stayed In

[Guest]

I watched the 2nd Half and am so much more convinced now that ... leaving DRob in was the right decision, especially when your argument is that "he might have gotten hurt."

This drive was the NEW offense ...it's what Borges said he'd do- combine Denard's strengths with a more Pro Style Offense that reduces the number of hits he takes and accomplishes ball control --6:10 taken off the clock w/ a gimme FG. If that isn't 'Michigan football,' I don't know what is!


The drive is broken down as follows:

--- Handoff to Shaw, no hit - 181yds total for DRob rushing at this time
* announcers complain about Gardner not being in
---Pass to Jackson on play action, no hit
* announcers complain again
--- QB designed draw, gain of 5, low impact hit
--- Handoff to Fitz, DRob nowhere near play...
--- Pitch to Vinny, long gain, DRob nowhere near play ...
--- Shotgun spread formation, handoff to Vinny, huge gain
* announcers complain - second & third time phrase "one play away" is used
--- I Formation, play action pass INC to Roundtree ... No hit
--- QB designed draw, gain of 4, runs out of bounds
* announcers suddenly get it - talking about what they'll look for on film and why DRob needs reps
--- Shotgun, 5-step drop, bullet to Gallon, no hit
--- Spread formation, inside handoff to Fitz
--- Shotgun, scramble ahead for 3, minimal hit
* announcers are scrambling a bit too -- now saying DRob needs the reps but its "at the expense" of Gardner ...
[Timeout M, announcers point out Gardner again]
--- I Formation, play action pass, overthrown, no hit

Field Goal

--- Enter Gardner agter EMU gives it back
--- Shotgun spread formation, handoff to Fitz ...er, Rawls who trips and falls for a loss
--- Shotgun spread formation, handoff to Rawls for gain of 3yds
--- QB designed draw, first down, minimal hit on Gardner (Thank God!)


Even the JV quality production of the BTN includes meetings about scripting storylines for the game. I think these guys went too heavy with the non-issue storyline

 

[Michchamp]

nice work. here's some of that karma back.

 

[Michchamp]

I predict that Maize&Blue09 will say something really stupid about your post.

 

[biggunsbob]

Your up 28-3 with 9 minutes to go... Might as well get you back up some work.. Unless Devin is in the doghouse the play would have been to put him in.. How many times did DR go out of games last year..
Those low impact hits you talk about are funny consider that guys on turf fields have blown their ACL out without getting hit.. Charles for KC comes to mind lunging for a first down. My guess is DR would do anything to get a first down on that drive.. You just never know in football when you need you back-up in a game.. Right now Devin has no real game experience.. He needs some...

 

[Guest]

By any measure, any contact Shoelace had on that drive was minimal. He ran out of bounds, managed the clock, called a few audibles and ran a great mix of plays where he was distributing the ball. Football is a physical game. Borges called a brilliant sequence that series to get DRob real game experience running the Hybrid O.

Gardner will be fine when he needs to come in

 

[wolverine304]

biggunsbob[/color]] Your up 28-3 with 9 minutes to go... Might as well get you back up some work.. Unless Devin is in the doghouse the play would have been to put him in.. How many times did DR go out of games last year..
Those low impact hits you talk about are funny consider that guys on turf fields have blown their ACL out without getting hit.. Charles for KC comes to mind lunging for a first down. My guess is DR would do anything to get a first down on that drive.. You just never know in football when you need you back-up in a game.. Right now Devin has no real game experience.. He needs some...

Denard hardly has any real game experience running the new offense... he needs some

 

[architect]

biggunsbob[/color]] Your up 28-3 with 9 minutes to go... Might as well get you back up some work.. Unless Devin is in the doghouse the play would have been to put him in.. How many times did DR go out of games last year..

IF it wasn't a first year coach installing a new/modified offense I would agree Bob, but every live rep DRob gets is beneficial. I'm sure if the coaches didn't think there was anything to gain from it, Gardner would have been getting reps instead.

 

[dubbsco]

Bob, putting in Devin with 9 minutes go to, and having him hand it off a handful of times against Eastern is not real game experience. Devin will get real game experience if Denard goes down, and he's thrown in against Nebraska, or any good Big 10 team.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I watched the 2nd Half and am so much more convinced now that ... leaving DRob in was the right decision, especially when your argument is that "he might have gotten hurt."

This drive was the NEW offense ...it's what Borges said he'd do- combine Denard's strengths with a more Pro Style Offense that reduces the number of hits he takes and accomplishes ball control --6:10 taken off the clock w/ a gimme FG. If that isn't 'Michigan football,' I don't know what is!


The drive is broken down as follows:

--- Handoff to Shaw, no hit - 181yds total for DRob rushing at this time
* announcers complain about Gardner not being in
---Pass to Jackson on play action, no hit
* announcers complain again
--- QB designed draw, gain of 5, low impact hit
--- Handoff to Fitz, DRob nowhere near play...
--- Pitch to Vinny, long gain, DRob nowhere near play ...
--- Shotgun spread formation, handoff to Vinny, huge gain
* announcers complain - second & third time phrase "one play away" is used
--- I Formation, play action pass INC to Roundtree ... No hit
--- QB designed draw, gain of 4, runs out of bounds
* announcers suddenly get it - talking about what they'll look for on film and why DRob needs reps
--- Shotgun, 5-step drop, bullet to Gallon, no hit
--- Spread formation, inside handoff to Fitz
--- Shotgun, scramble ahead for 3, minimal hit
* announcers are scrambling a bit too -- now saying DRob needs the reps but its "at the expense" of Gardner ...
[Timeout M, announcers point out Gardner again]
--- I Formation, play action pass, overthrown, no hit

Field Goal

--- Enter Gardner agter EMU gives it back
--- Shotgun spread formation, handoff to Fitz ...er, Rawls who trips and falls for a loss
--- Shotgun spread formation, handoff to Rawls for gain of 3yds
--- QB designed draw, first down, minimal hit on Gardner (Thank God!)


Even the JV quality production of the BTN includes meetings about scripting storylines for the game. I think these guys went too heavy with the non-issue storyline

I know MichChamp said I will say something stupid - and if this is stupid then he's right - but, on the verge of being a broken record, there is no excuse for running the QB on that drive. I'm even ok with leaving Robinson in to take the clock off. But there's no way I will ever agree that it was smart to run him. Have him throw or hand off but there is no reason I can possible think of to justify running your star player while winning 28-3. So the drive stalls - so what? We're up 28-3. It would take the biggest comeback in big house history for EMU to have won that game. It was a dumb move IMO. It worked out, and I guess that's all the matters, but that still doesn't make it smart.

 

[Guest]

Champ was right.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Champ was right.

Give me a good reason why Denard should have run in the 4th quarter and I'll leave it alone?

 

[Guest]

Because that is what Denard does,
Because that is the offense,
Because he is the starting QB,
Because this drive gave him the most complete and thorough drive of the season with the Borges offense starting to be integrated


There is no compelling argument against playing him.

The only thing that can be said is that "WHAT IF....." and you can't coach that way.

Now ... if we had a different person calling the offense, he'd have run the ball more. The drive would have likely stalled, if not taken far less time off the clock. Our starting QB ... the leader of the team benefitted from the drive, from managing the game, from calling audibles and leading the team down the field with a lead.

There was no "risk" to Denard on the drive. He ran out of bounds, avoided hits and on all but two plays on the drive, wasn't touched by the defense. A pro style QB can take hits all game long, just as severe or worse than a running QB.

Rich Rod ran the kid into the ground. It's clear to me Borges is far better at balancing Denard's skills with the new scheme and this drive was the first time he looked completely comfortable and it will pay dividends this Saturday.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Because that is what Denard does,
Because that is the offense,
Because he is the starting QB,
Because this drive gave him the most complete and thorough drive of the season with the Borges offense starting to be integrated


There is no compelling argument against playing him.

The only thing that can be said is that "WHAT IF....." and you can't coach that way.

Now ... if we had a different person calling the offense, he'd have run the ball more. The drive would have likely stalled, if not taken far less time off the clock. Our starting QB ... the leader of the team benefitted from the drive, from managing the game, from calling audibles and leading the team down the field with a lead.

There was no "risk" to Denard on the drive. He ran out of bounds, avoided hits and on all but two plays on the drive, wasn't touched by the defense. A pro style QB can take hits all game long, just as severe or worse than a running QB.

Rich Rod ran the kid into the ground. It's clear to me Borges is far better at balancing Denard's skills with the new scheme and this drive was the first time he looked completely comfortable and it will pay dividends this Saturday.

I said against running Denard - not playing him. Running Denard is not the offense they want to run. It's an offense they have to run to win games. Using it in junk time makes no sense. If they wanted to run their offense we would have seen two tight ends the whole time, a full back and a running back which took every single snap on the drive - and maybe with a TE pass here or there. You argument still makes no sense - give Denard practice at something he does naturally? So 2 out of the some 14 plays on the drive Denard got hit- that's 2 too many. How do you not understand that? Rawls or Hayes or Cox or any other RB should have been taking those hits. If Shaw goes out the impact on the team in minimal.

Yes I'm operating on the "what if" factor only because it applies to games in the future as well. If we're up 28-3 against Northwestern and Denard is in, that is still going to be stupid as hell. And if/when he gets hurt one of these days doing that we're going to be pissed when Garder is the starting QB the next week against MSU and we lose because of it.

 

[Guest]

I think Denard should only play when it's guaranteed he won't get hurt no matter what happens and he should be taken out of any game where Michigan is leading.

In a few weeks, against a Northwestern, and with another few games under his belt and in the rearview on the schedule, maybe you do put Gardner in.

And for the love of God, change that gay sig pic of yours.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I think Denard should only play when it's guaranteed he won't get hurt no matter what happens and he should be taken out of any game where Michigan is leading.

In a few weeks, against a Northwestern, and with another few games under his belt and in the rearview on the schedule, maybe you do put Gardner in.

And for the love of God, change that gay sig pic of yours.

I never said he shouldn't play. Denard shouldn't be running QB draws up 28-3 at EMU. How are you not understanding that? He can be in all he wants but he should be handing off to Mike Cox or Rawls - as stated above. EMU literally can't win the game at that point - there is no point at risking injury to Denard since the game is won.

There's a reason they don't go full contact on Denard in practice - because they don't want to risk him getting injured more than they have to. It does them no good to get him injured running QB draws in practice - similarly - it does them no good getting him injured running QB draws in a game that's out of hand against EMU.

and gay kovacs stays until we lose a game. So far it's been good luck.

 

[Guest]

You're changing your argument (again).

There were two plays on the entire drive and on neither play did Denard take a hit that was a greater risk than he'd face walking down a flight of stairs. He did *literally* hand the ball off ... to Vinny and Fitz. He ran play action and ran out of the I Formation. I took great pains to detail the drive play-by-play to help dispell the notion that he was at risk.

The announcers beat the "Garnder should be in" to a bloody pulp but even they were only really arguing Gardner needed the experience, not that Denard was in physical danger.

Any play, any time, any tackle ... believe me.

Terrell Davis' career came to an end while tackling a Jets defender who'd picked up a fumble because a Broncos lineman fell on him helping on the tackle.

You can't coach out of fear of what might happen when it might happen on any play. And all things relative, TWO plays does not constitute a crisis in my mind.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

You're changing your argument (again).

There were two plays on the entire drive and on neither play did Denard take a hit that was a greater risk than he'd face walking down a flight of stairs. He did *literally* hand the ball off ... to Vinny and Fitz. He ran play action and ran out of the I Formation. I took great pains to detail the drive play-by-play to help dispell the notion that he was at risk.

The announcers beat the "Garnder should be in" to a bloody pulp but even they were only really arguing Gardner needed the experience, not that Denard was in physical danger.

Any play, any time, any tackle ... believe me.

Terrell Davis' career came to an end while tackling a Jets defender who'd picked up a fumble because a Broncos lineman fell on him helping on the tackle.

You can't coach out of fear of what might happen when it might happen on any play. And all things relative, TWO plays does not constitute a crisis in my mind.

oh really? My very first post in this thread: "I'm even ok with leaving Robinson in to take the clock off. But there's no way I will ever agree that it was smart to run him."

And people do coach out of "fear" because, as stated above, they don't do full contact against the QB's in practice for the very reason I'm saying not to run Denard when the EMU game is already won. You don't want to potentially injure a player you rely highly on for runs in a game that don't matter. If it happens in game when the game is still in question - then it's different. But EMU was dead and we had won that game. No reason to run Denard....not one. It's not about the hits that he did take - it's about the potential for it to be much much worse then and in the future games.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

Vic, A "gimme FG"? Wow! Things have turned around.

 

[Guest]

No kidding! Taking over 6 minutes off the clock while leading comfortably and settling for a "gimme" FG!

Talk about old school Michigan football!

Usually that's our first drive of the game though!

 

[biggunsbob]

Bob, putting in Devin with 9 minutes go to, and having him hand it off a handful of times against Eastern is not real game experience. Devin will get real game experience if Denard goes down, and he's thrown in against Nebraska, or any good Big 10 team.

That is a silly statement... Hand offs in practice and hand offs in a real game are totally different. Devin could use game experience any chance he can get some...