Golden Age Baseball HOF Ballot

[tycobb420]

http://baseballhall.org/news/press-releases/ten-named-golden-era-ballot-baseball-hall-fame-election

 

[tycobb420]

Let's see: Bavasi, Hodges, Kaat, Oliva (cause Al Kaline says so), Reynolds, and Santo

 

[kalinecountry]

Let's see: Bavasi, Hodges, Kaat, Oliva (cause Al Kaline says so), Reynolds, and Santo

I was hoping someone would post a thread on the Golden Age HOF Ballot. Glad you made a thread Ty.

Oliva, as Kaline has said, was a great player early on, but those knee injuries cost him much of his prime and career.

Allie Reynolds was an excellent pitcher and probably cost himself by offering and going into games as a reliever.

I would probably vote for another 50 players added. But as it has been said already regarding some players already enshrined, it has also become the Hall of the Very Good too.

 

[tycobb420]

Let's see: Bavasi, Hodges, Kaat, Oliva (cause Al Kaline says so), Reynolds, and Santo

My rationale:

Bavasi: 17 years w/the Dodgers: 8 pennants and 4 WS. 2 division titles with the Angels

Hodges: Most RBI in 1950s (think about that), 370 HR, 1274 RBI, 7 World Series, 2 wins, Managed 1969 Mets, This guy was a winner. Always surprised he was not in.

Kaat: 283 wins, 7000 gold gloves

Oliva: 1964 ROY, .304 career hitter, 3x batting champ, 5x leader in hits, Kaline says so

Reynolds: Ace of the great Yankee teams, 2 no-hitters, a slew of one-hitters, 182 wins, .630 win %, 7-2 postseason record. Another guy I am shocked is not in yet.

Santo: He is not in because he was not named Brooks or Schmidt.

 

[tycobb420]

Golden Era Committee c/o Baseball Hall of Fame
25 Main Street
Cooperstown, NY, 13326.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Let's see: Bavasi, Hodges, Kaat, Oliva (cause Al Kaline says so), Reynolds, and Santo

My rationale:

Bavasi: 17 years w/the Dodgers: 8 pennants and 4 WS. 2 division titles with the Angels

Hodges: Most RBI in 1950s (think about that), 370 HR, 1274 RBI, 7 World Series, 2 wins, Managed 1969 Mets, This guy was a winner. Always surprised he was not in.

Kaat: 283 wins, 7000 gold gloves

Oliva: 1964 ROY, .304 career hitter, 3x batting champ, 5x leader in hits, Kaline says so

Reynolds: Ace of the great Yankee teams, 2 no-hitters, a slew of one-hitters, 182 wins, .630 win %, 7-2 postseason record. Another guy I am shocked is not in yet.

Santo: He is not in because he was not named Brooks or Schmidt.

Good summary. Without seeing Oliva play though, I see under 2000 hits. I would have a hard time voting him based on that. Not like he had a ton of home runs. He was a good player looking at stats but not a HOF in my book.


Hodges -- See above. If his last 4 years weren't bad maybe it'd be different.

Katt -- 285 wins is a HOF for me. It doesn't matter who he played for, hw long he played for etc. Who gets to 285 wins without being in the HOF.

Santo - He's one that I think should get a long look. I always feel for the good players who played for the Cubs. Solid numbers that if he played for the Yankees or Dodgers and had better players around him who knows what his numbers would be.

 

[tycobb420]

Mitch[/color]]

My rationale:

Bavasi: 17 years w/the Dodgers: 8 pennants and 4 WS. 2 division titles with the Angels

Hodges: Most RBI in 1950s (think about that), 370 HR, 1274 RBI, 7 World Series, 2 wins, Managed 1969 Mets, This guy was a winner. Always surprised he was not in.

Kaat: 283 wins, 7000 gold gloves

Oliva: 1964 ROY, .304 career hitter, 3x batting champ, 5x leader in hits, Kaline says so

Reynolds: Ace of the great Yankee teams, 2 no-hitters, a slew of one-hitters, 182 wins, .630 win %, 7-2 postseason record. Another guy I am shocked is not in yet.

Santo: He is not in because he was not named Brooks or Schmidt.

Good summary. Without seeing Oliva play though, I see under 2000 hits. I would have a hard time voting him based on that. Not like he had a ton of home runs. He was a good player looking at stats but not a HOF in my book.


Hodges -- See above. If his last 4 years weren't bad maybe it'd be different.

Katt -- 285 wins is a HOF for me. It doesn't matter who he played for, hw long he played for etc. Who gets to 285 wins without being in the HOF.

Santo - He's one that I think should get a long look. I always feel for the good players who played for the Cubs. Solid numbers that if he played for the Yankees or Dodgers and had better players around him who knows what his numbers would be.

I really think Santo makes the Hall if he played a decade earlier, but Brooks and Schmidt's shadows are so large...

 

[Mitchrapp]

You're probably right.

 

[uofmpoweri]

It is the Hall of FAME, not the hall of good players that had long careers. I think that greatness should get you in. I understand that I am not in charge of the selection or the criteria for selection, but here is my opinion.

Kaat: Not great, 20 wins 3 times, never led the league in k's, ERA, and led in wins 1 time. I would not put him in.

Hodges: .273 hitter, 370 hrs. There are a million players with those numbers, he isout

Minosa, .298 186 hrs. Sounds like Guillen... but he didn't play SS. he is out

Oliva, you could make a case with the 3 batting titles, but he just didn't play long enough for my standards. 8 good seasons does not make someone a hall of famer.

Allie Reynolds: Nope, 13 Seasons only works if your name is Kofax. Good pitchers need a few more seasons to stand out

Ron Santo: The same as Hodges, there has to be a cut off, and they don't make the cut for me.


Luis Tiant: is my guy that I would let in. 3.30 ERA and 229 wins puts him right there with Jim Bunting, Catfish hunter and Mickey Lolich. 2 of the 3 are in the HOF

 

[tycobb420]

It is the Hall of FAME, not the hall of good players that had long careers. I think that greatness should get you in. I understand that I am not in charge of the selection or the criteria for selection, but here is my opinion.

Kaat: Not great, 20 wins 3 times, never led the league in k's, ERA, and led in wins 1 time. I would not put him in.

Hodges: .273 hitter, 370 hrs. There are a million players with those numbers, he isout

Minosa, .298 186 hrs. Sounds like Guillen... but he didn't play SS. he is out

Oliva, you could make a case with the 3 batting titles, but he just didn't play long enough for my standards. 8 good seasons does not make someone a hall of famer.

Allie Reynolds: Nope, 13 Seasons only works if your name is Kofax. Good pitchers need a few more seasons to stand out

Ron Santo: The same as Hodges, there has to be a cut off, and they don't make the cut for me.


Luis Tiant: is my guy that I would let in. 3.30 ERA and 229 wins puts him right there with Jim Bunting, Catfish hunter and Mickey Lolich. 2 of the 3 are in the HOF

Kaat's win totals are hall worthy. You really can't make an argument for Tiant and not Kaat. Hodges led the majors in RBI in the 50s and also has many intangibles that can't be quantified and are best exemplified by his stewardship of the 69 Mets. Allie Reynolds has the resume....and was the ace of some of the greatest teams in history. Santo is a clear HOFer if Robinson and Schmidt never played. He's got Trammell syndrome...Tramm played with Ripken and Yount.

 

[uofmpoweri]

It is the Hall of FAME, not the hall of good players that had long careers. I think that greatness should get you in. I understand that I am not in charge of the selection or the criteria for selection, but here is my opinion.

Kaat: Not great, 20 wins 3 times, never led the league in k's, ERA, and led in wins 1 time. I would not put him in.

Hodges: .273 hitter, 370 hrs. There are a million players with those numbers, he isout

Minosa, .298 186 hrs. Sounds like Guillen... but he didn't play SS. he is out

Oliva, you could make a case with the 3 batting titles, but he just didn't play long enough for my standards. 8 good seasons does not make someone a hall of famer.

Allie Reynolds: Nope, 13 Seasons only works if your name is Kofax. Good pitchers need a few more seasons to stand out

Ron Santo: The same as Hodges, there has to be a cut off, and they don't make the cut for me.


Luis Tiant: is my guy that I would let in. 3.30 ERA and 229 wins puts him right there with Jim Bunting, Catfish hunter and Mickey Lolich. 2 of the 3 are in the HOF

Kaat's win totals are hall worthy. You really can't make an argument for Tiant and not Kaat. Hodges led the majors in RBI in the 50s and also has many intangibles that can't be quantified and are best exemplified by his stewardship of the 69 Mets. Allie Reynolds has the resume....and was the ace of some of the greatest teams in history. Santo is a clear HOFer if Robinson and Schmidt never played. He's got Trammell syndrome...Tramm played with Ripken and Yount.

Let's put them all in Ty. How about we call it the hall of players that made an all star game.

 

[tycobb420]

Kaat's win totals are hall worthy. You really can't make an argument for Tiant and not Kaat. Hodges led the majors in RBI in the 50s and also has many intangibles that can't be quantified and are best exemplified by his stewardship of the 69 Mets. Allie Reynolds has the resume....and was the ace of some of the greatest teams in history. Santo is a clear HOFer if Robinson and Schmidt never played. He's got Trammell syndrome...Tramm played with Ripken and Yount.

Let's put them all in Ty. How about we call it the hall of players that made an all star game.

Nice rebutal. Informative.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Wait a minute Tiant gets in at 3.30 with 229 wins but 3.45 and 285 wins doesn't? Little higher ERA but I'll take those extra 56 wins.

 

[tycobb420]

Mitch[/color]]Wait a minute Tiant gets in at 3.30 with 229 wins but 3.45 and 285 wins doesn't? Little higher ERA but I'll take those extra 56 wins.

Kaat: 283-237, 3.45 ERA, 2461 Ks, 3x AS, 1982 World Champ, 16x Gold Glove, 1966 TSN Pitcher of the Year, 4530 IP, 898 Games, double digit wins 16x, one 20 win season (25, 1966), led league in IP (1966), GS 2x, CG (1966-19)

Tiant: 229-172, 3.30 ERA, 2416 Ks, 3486 IP, double digit wins: 13x, four 20 win seasons, led league ERA: 2x, shutouts:3x, WHIP (1973), 20 losses (1969), 3x AS

 

[uofmpoweri]

Mitch[/color]]Wait a minute Tiant gets in at 3.30 with 229 wins but 3.45 and 285 wins doesn't? Little higher ERA but I'll take those extra 56 wins.

It is called dominance. I would put Pedro Martinez in over Mike Mussina even though Mussina has a much higher win total. Tiant had 2 years with ERA's under 2.00. Wins are over rated.

 

[uofmpoweri]

Mitch[/color]]Wait a minute Tiant gets in at 3.30 with 229 wins but 3.45 and 285 wins doesn't? Little higher ERA but I'll take those extra 56 wins.

Kaat: 283-237, 3.45 ERA, 2461 Ks, 3x AS, 1982 World Champ, 16x Gold Glove, 1966 TSN Pitcher of the Year, 4530 IP, 898 Games, double digit wins 16x, one 20 win season (25, 1966), led league in IP (1966), GS 2x, CG (1966-19)


Tiant: 229-172, 3.30 ERA, 2416 Ks, 3486 IP, double digit wins: 13x, four 20 win seasons, led league ERA: 2x, shutouts:3x, WHIP (1973), 20 losses (1969), 3x AS

20 losses, I bet that he had a ton of run support.

 

[tycobb420]

Mitch[/color]]Wait a minute Tiant gets in at 3.30 with 229 wins but 3.45 and 285 wins doesn't? Little higher ERA but I'll take those extra 56 wins.

It is called dominance. I would put Pedro Martinez in over Mike Mussina even though Mussina has a much higher win total. Tiant had 2 years with ERA's under 2.00. Wins are over rated.

Win are not overrated when a pitcher is expected to finish what he started. Tiant and Kaat pitched in an era in which pitchers were expected to go 9. Therefore, win totals are indicative of a pitcher's effectiveness for that generation.

 

[tycobb420]

Kaat: 283-237, 3.45 ERA, 2461 Ks, 3x AS, 1982 World Champ, 16x Gold Glove, 1966 TSN Pitcher of the Year, 4530 IP, 898 Games, double digit wins 16x, one 20 win season (25, 1966), led league in IP (1966), GS 2x, CG (1966-19)


Tiant: 229-172, 3.30 ERA, 2416 Ks, 3486 IP, double digit wins: 13x, four 20 win seasons, led league ERA: 2x, shutouts:3x, WHIP (1973), 20 losses (1969), 3x AS

20 losses, I bet that he had a ton of run support.

His ERA was 3.71 that season, whip was 1.434, he walked 129 and surrendered 37 HR. It was 1969 and he just plain stunk that season.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I do know wins are overrated but not a careers worth. 283 wins is pretty darn good. I think longegivity should get considered at least a little bit. And for the record I think Tiant was a hell of a pitcher.

 

[uofmpoweri]

20 losses, I bet that he had a ton of run support.

His ERA was 3.71 that season, whip was 1.434, he walked 129 and surrendered 37 HR. It was 1969 and he just plain stunk that season.

Whip is a little high, but a 3.71 ERA is not horrible. Kaat was good. He played forever, he wasn't great. There has to be a cut off somewhere, and I would cut him off and let a player that was dominate during his prime in like Tiant.