Good story about Izzo not cheating

[Sbee]

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/...10/analyst-izzo-lost-recruits-cheat/24711699/

We fight our way into the tourney with limited talent while some other schools look the other way and end up national title contenders. I wish the NCAA would get tougher on those coaches.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

I won't pretend there aren't times that I wish he would cheat to land a Jahlil Okafor, Anthony Davis, or Derrick Rose. But it's nice to be able to hang our hats on knowing Izzo really is one of the best coaches and people.

 

[johnny2x2x]

The way cheating is today, kids are getting paid to go to schools and the coaches don't have to know anything if they don't want to. Izzo is one of those guys though that is going to make a point to find out. The boosters have their bag men, it's obvious who the top targets are for their school, they can pay kids without a coach knowing anything. Then they can pay to keep a kid after he's given a verbal. It's said the going rate for a top 100 football player is $1000 to not visit another school.

Caliparri has been a cheater for a long time, but I don't even think it's necessary where he is now. UK is an NBA factory and Calipari regularly produces 5+ 1st round picks a year, heck, he's got players getting drafted in the 1st round who came off the bench for him. Kentucky is also really pushing the envelope for the facilities they provide their players with. Gourmet chefs, massages, girls, all while living in a mansion. Playing ball for UK is almost like already being in the NBA.

Recruiting for football in the B1G is starting to get really dirty. There's been an influx of slime balls the last few seasons.

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't buy that bit about Kentucky being special in any way other than cheating better than others. Pitino didn't recruit like that there and Kentucky was nothing special under Tubby Smith. Plus other traditional powerhouses have struggled under other coaches (KU, UNC and UCLA for example...)

The dorm helps, I'm sure - especially for guys they recruit to round out the bench who may not be meeting a guy in a parking lot somewhere to get the duffle bag. Athletes get perks and nice facilities everywhere nowadays - maybe not as nice the UK dorm but it's not like the dook, unc, etc kids are living in a ghetto and setting fires in trash cans to keep warm all winter...

 

[Sbee]

a lot of this speculation surrounds Alexander who most likely took money from an agent in order to retain his services once he goes to the NBA. that really isn't a case of Kansas being directly involved but also there are coaches who look the other way in those situations and Self is one of those guys. they also hired Mario Chalmers father as director of basketball operations. There's a different between getting money to go to Kansas vs getting money from an agent but maybe Kansas does both.

UK doesn't need to cheat as much but there was the Anthony Davis story that got pulled at the 11th hour from the Sun Times because one of sources suddenly changed his story. the story was going to say that Davis took 200k to go to Kentucky, that may not be 100% accurate but I'm sure some improper things took place. I don't know how much Cal is behind it but I don't think he goes out of his way to avoid those recruitments

 

[Spartan23MSU]

14 coaches voted SEC the dirtiest hahahah. Thats largely directed at Kentucky! YOu can tell on a lower level that when Izzo is sitting players for something minor and willing to accept a loss that he runs things uber clean. Sometimes a bit too clean for the liking of some fans.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

I don't buy that bit about Kentucky being special in any way other than cheating better than others. Pitino didn't recruit like that there and Kentucky was nothing special under Tubby Smith. Plus other traditional powerhouses have struggled under other coaches (KU, UNC and UCLA for example...)

The dorm helps, I'm sure - especially for guys they recruit to round out the bench who may not be meeting a guy in a parking lot somewhere to get the duffle bag. Athletes get perks and nice facilities everywhere nowadays - maybe not as nice the UK dorm but it's not like the dook, unc, etc kids are living in a ghetto and setting fires in trash cans to keep warm all winter...

Exactly, he was a cheater at memphis and hes a cheater now. hes getting 5 mcdonalds all americans a year who are willing to sacrifice playing time. writing is on the wall.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

The way cheating is today, kids are getting paid to go to schools and the coaches don't have to know anything if they don't want to. Izzo is one of those guys though that is going to make a point to find out. The boosters have their bag men, it's obvious who the top targets are for their school, they can pay kids without a coach knowing anything. Then they can pay to keep a kid after he's given a verbal. It's said the going rate for a top 100 football player is $1000 to not visit another school.

Caliparri has been a cheater for a long time, but I don't even think it's necessary where he is now. UK is an NBA factory and Calipari regularly produces 5+ 1st round picks a year, heck, he's got players getting drafted in the 1st round who came off the bench for him. Kentucky is also really pushing the envelope for the facilities they provide their players with. Gourmet chefs, massages, girls, all while living in a mansion. Playing ball for UK is almost like already being in the NBA.



Recruiting for football in the B1G is starting to get really dirty. There's been an influx of slime balls the last few seasons.

So, he was dirty before now hes clean, not a chance. I give it 2-3 more years then he will be brought up on charges and migrate to another school.

 

[Spartanmack]

If UK doesn't need to cheat as much as others, why would they hire a known cheater like Calipari with his reputation, history and baggage? Nobody talks about what a great game coach he is. Why risk destroying their reputation, all that tradition and goodwill if they don't need to cheat? I think that is just nonsense - sure tehy have some history/tradition but I see that more as a cover for the shenanigans that he engages in than as an explanation for how the exact same pattern that got him in trouble everywhere else is all of a sudden achieved legitimately because now he's got a name w/ tradition on his business card.

Basically what people are saying is "sure, he had to cheat to get Camby to UMass and all those elite players to come to Memphis but now that he has little UKs on his neck tie, it makes sense that he's doing something nobody has ever done before at Kentucky or anywhere else, (except for him at Memphis) without cheating because it's Kentucky." You have to be naive to believe that the brand is that powerful when the brand didn't achieve anything like that even for an elite coach like Pitino.

 

[SpartyNash]

If UK doesn't need to cheat as much, why would they hire a guy like Calipari with his reputation, history and baggage? Why risk destroying their reputation, all that tradition and goodwill if they don't need to cheat? I think that is just naive - sure tehy have some history/tradition but I see that more as a cover for the shenanigans that he engages in than as an explanation for how all of a sudden, the exact same pattern that got him in trouble everywhere else is all of a sudden achieved legitimately because now he's got a name w/ tradition on his business card.

Basically what people are saying is "sure, he had to cheat to get Camby to UMass and all those elite players to come to Memphis but now that he has UK on his neck tie, it makes sense that he's doing something nobody has ever done at Kentucky or anywhere else, (except for him at Memphis) without cheating because it's Kentucky"

Keep in mind too that UK has a history of this. Didn't they forfeit a bunch of wins in the 80s under Eddie Sutton? I'm with you, Cal is still a fraud and may not cheat like he did at UMass and Memphis but I doubt he has completely eradicated it.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

If UK doesn't need to cheat as much as others, why would they hire a known cheater like Calipari with his reputation, history and baggage? Nobody talks about what a great game coach he is. Why risk destroying their reputation, all that tradition and goodwill if they don't need to cheat? I think that is just nonsense - sure tehy have some history/tradition but I see that more as a cover for the shenanigans that he engages in than as an explanation for how the exact same pattern that got him in trouble everywhere else is all of a sudden achieved legitimately because now he's got a name w/ tradition on his business card.

Basically what people are saying is "sure, he had to cheat to get Camby to UMass and all those elite players to come to Memphis but now that he has little UKs on his neck tie, it makes sense that he's doing something nobody has ever done before at Kentucky or anywhere else, (except for him at Memphis) without cheating because it's Kentucky." You have to be naive to believe that the brand is that powerful when the brand didn't achieve anything like that even for an elite coach like Pitino.

Especially since Kentucky has been largely insignificant for the last 20 years. They are not the once storied program they were in years past. That UK on the necktie didnt mean much to any other players for decades now all of a sudden it does? Im with you on that.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

Keep in mind too that UK has a history of this. Didn't they forfeit a bunch of wins in the 80s under Eddie Sutton? I'm with you, Cal is still a fraud and may not cheat like he did at UMass and Memphis but I doubt he has completely eradicated it.

Hes worse. Hes has found different ways to disguise it. :nod:

 

[Spartanmack]

Keep in mind too that UK has a history of this. Didn't they forfeit a bunch of wins in the 80s under Eddie Sutton? I'm with you, Cal is still a fraud and may not cheat like he did at UMass and Memphis but I doubt he has completely eradicated it.

Good point - i had forgotten about that. Still though, there is a lot of downside for their reputation by hiring a known cheat. And cheating aside, they had to know he was going to destroy all pretense of Kentucky as an academic institution and turn it into a one-and-done basketball factory. Basically, by hiring Cal, even if you're a staunch believer that he's a victim and has never cheated, Kentucky is saying all they care about is winning.

 

[gotime909]

Since Cal got there, Kentucky is basically the Oak Hill of college basketball. It's just a "prep" school for the NBA.

 

[Michchamp]

Hes worse. Hes has found different ways to disguise it. :nod:

agree. Thinking about the SEC "bag men" article... big time cheating programs have a network of guys who operate by word-of-mouth only (no paper trail) around the coach to shield him. I'm sure at UK there's a ready-made network of guys to deliver cash/benefits, without Calipari having to do much more than mention the names of recruiting targets to them

one has to be particularly stupid - like Jim Tressel emailing back and forth with a lawyer informing him of violations stupid - in order to get caught and tied to that.

I read about some of the violations at Syracuse... not sure which ones were tied directly to Boeheim, or how, but with the thing about employees from the athletic department emailing professors and sending multiple drafts of papers "written by" Fab Melo to get grades retroactively changed is just so blatant it's no surprise they were hit with sanctions.

 

[tomdalton22]

there are kids on every campus taking money illegally. There is no way to stop it.

 

[Sbee]

there are kids on every campus taking money illegally. There is no way to stop it.

I don't think that any of us are naive enough to believe that our athletes don't get the occasional golden handshake from a booster but it's institutional at some schools, particularly the southern schools. The big ten is relatively clean compared to the other conferences

 

[Spartan23MSU]

agree. Thinking about the SEC "bag men" article... big time cheating programs have a network of guys who operate by word-of-mouth only (no paper trail) around the coach to shield him. I'm sure at UK there's a ready-made network of guys to deliver cash/benefits, without Calipari having to do much more than mention the names of recruiting targets to them

one has to be particularly stupid - like Jim Tressel emailing back and forth with a lawyer informing him of violations stupid - in order to get caught and tied to that.

I read about some of the violations at Syracuse... not sure which ones were tied directly to Boeheim, or how, but with the thing about employees from the athletic department emailing professors and sending multiple drafts of papers "written by" Fab Melo to get grades retroactively changed is just so blatant it's no surprise they were hit with sanctions.

Exactly, there is an entire syndicate behind him. Most of the dirty work isnt going through Caliparis hands directly, hes surrounded by henchmen that do his dirty work. UK needs a presence again and this is how they intend to get it. Calipari can be obvious but without a clear paper trail. Hes a master of his craft and now were seeing the final product over years of practice and planning. He was pulling a few top guys at Memphis (shady) now his average player is consistently top 25??! Were seeing recruiting possibilites that never previously existed. What, 12 of the top players in the land over a 2 year span? These players could have more court time at another school with less competition for that time at any other school. I dont buy the, "internship of 1 year at UK". I thought Thad Matta was on the gravy train but this is above and beyond. I dont care if MSU gets ousted first or second round, we have no chance to win a NC. I would harvest some satisfaction in Kentucky NOT winning it just out of principle. I feel like Andy Rooney tonight! "ya ever wonder why Ketucky sucked, now gets all the best talent when a dirty coach swaps schools "??

 

[Spartan23MSU]

there are kids on every campus taking money illegally. There is no way to stop it.

Some programs are less obvious than others. In the case of Kentucky...."catch me if you can"

 

[Spartan23MSU]

I don't think that any of us are naive enough to believe that our athletes don't get the occasional golden handshake from a booster but it's institutional at some schools, particularly the southern schools. The big ten is relatively clean compared to the other conferences

The southern schools are founded on the golden handshake, watch the documentary on ESPN 30/30 about Marcus Dupree "The Best That Never Was". "Good ole boys" if youve ever seen them, a great documentary. This board is going to self-destruct, Sbee, Michchamp,Spartanmack, Nash and myself all finding common ground about Calipari. :shrug: