How the Mueller Investigation Could Play Out for Trump

[tinselwolverine]

If the GOP blocked Obama at every turn and the economy got going during his term, how exactly does Obama and the Dems in general get credit for that? Shouldn't we be giving the GOP credit for keeping Obama's agenda from f'ing everything up?

Also, the Dems didn't clean up a GOP mess - the mortgage debacle can be traced directly to policies pushed by Dem controlled congress, particularly the efforts of Barney Frank when he served on the financial services committee from to 2003 to 2013 - he chaired it from 2007-2011. He personally led efforts to expand Fannie and Freddie and incentivize banks to create mortgage products for high risk borrowers. He never once tried to reign in securitization or other instruments that led to massive expansion of housing credit and the subsequent bubble. He in fact, did the opposite. The idea that the Dems didn't play a significant role in creating that bubble and it's inevitable bursting is preposterous.

It was definitely a bipartisan cluster fuck.


From 2008 through 2013 it doesn’t matter that much, because after 2008 the horses were already out of the barn.

For six of the eight years under bush-This is my recollection but I looked it up back in that time-That committee was chaired by two different Republicans, one dude was a guy named Leach and the other guy-I can’t Remember his name. One of them was from Iowa and the other was from Ohio.

Everybody in both parties before the crash we’re jumping up-and-down and patting themselves on the back and congratulating themselves for being part of expanding the ability for Americans to buy homes-the most in the history of the country.

Here is the “easy credit cheerleader in chief” himself speaking on behalf of his Fannie Mae

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIhmNIbDnk

EDIT: Oxley I think I remember going out is the name of the other guy.

 

[Michchamp]

If the GOP blocked Obama at every turn and the economy got going during his term, how exactly does Obama and the Dems in general get credit for that? Shouldn't we be giving the GOP credit for keeping Obama's agenda from f'ing everything up?

Also, the Dems didn't clean up a GOP mess - the mortgage debacle can be traced directly to policies pushed by Dem controlled congress, particularly the efforts of Barney Frank when he served on the financial services committee from to 2003 to 2013 - he chaired it from 2007-2011. He personally led efforts to expand Fannie and Freddie and incentivize banks to create mortgage products for high risk borrowers. He never once tried to reign in securitization or other instruments that led to massive expansion of housing credit and the subsequent bubble. He in fact, did the opposite. The idea that the Dems didn't play a significant role in creating that bubble and it's inevitable bursting is preposterous.

It is not preposterous. it has nothing to do with the source of the crisis.

Banks had been securitizing mortgages since the 80's.

In the 00's they got the rating agencies to fraudulently brand high risk mortgage securities AAA instead of whatever junk rating they should've had, so they could sell this shit off to pension funds and what not.

ALL this has been described in detail in dozens of books on the topic, and even a movie based on one of those books (The Big Short)... Like There's a Mount Everest of Evidence out there you're willfully ignorant of.

The banks were making so much money off this, they pushed the mortgage originators to give anyone with a pulse a mortgage.

all those mortgage securities were insured by policies written on them and traded back and forth by the banks, and policies were sold on top of policies, so when the mortgages started going into default, that triggered all these payouts that nobody had the money for, and hence the need for massive bailouts from the public. great business model... sober stewards of capital indeed.

Barney Frank might be a big sleazeball, owned by Wall Street, it's true. however he was just a mere congressman, and congressmen don't wield the power you are claiming. This all occurred while Bush was President, and his administration was responsible for enforcing the rules, and they didn't do shit. And then Obama came in and his AG Holder essentially said "These banks are too big to fail, and we like it that way." and so fraud was now de facto legal in America.

blaming the government here is a neat trick, but Fannie and Freddie buying mortgage securities wasn't the problem... they weren't driving the market.



I guess you gave up blaming black people and Mexicans for this one... that was your line before. government made the banks give blacks and mexicans mortgages, and they all defaulted (because, you know what "those people" are like *wink*) and then the government had to bail out the banks.

Why did you stop pushing that one? it's even better than blaming Barney Frank, right?

 

[tigermud]

maybe, but it has nothing to do with the "bots" conspiracy theory.

I'm going to have to disagree with PJW this time, they will be held to account trump offered one last olive branch at the SOTU it took them less than 24 hours to decline


https://www.infowars.com/the-truth-about-russian-collusion/#vuukle-comments

 

[Spartanmack]

It is not preposterous. it has nothing to do with the source of the crisis.

Banks had been securitizing mortgages since the 80's.

In the 00's they got the rating agencies to fraudulently brand high risk mortgage securities AAA instead of whatever junk rating they should've had, so they could sell this shit off to pension funds and what not.

ALL this has been described in detail in dozens of books on the topic, and even a movie based on one of those books (The Big Short)... Like There's a Mount Everest of Evidence out there you're willfully ignorant of.

The banks were making so much money off this, they pushed the mortgage originators to give anyone with a pulse a mortgage.

all those mortgage securities were insured by policies written on them and traded back and forth by the banks, and policies were sold on top of policies, so when the mortgages started going into default, that triggered all these payouts that nobody had the money for, and hence the need for massive bailouts from the public. great business model... sober stewards of capital indeed.

Barney Frank might be a big sleazeball, owned by Wall Street, it's true. however he was just a mere congressman, and congressmen don't wield the power you are claiming. This all occurred while Bush was President, and his administration was responsible for enforcing the rules, and they didn't do shit. And then Obama came in and his AG Holder essentially said "These banks are too big to fail, and we like it that way." and so fraud was now de facto legal in America.

blaming the government here is a neat trick, but Fannie and Freddie buying mortgage securities wasn't the problem... they weren't driving the market.



I guess you gave up blaming black people and Mexicans for this one... that was your line before. government made the banks give blacks and mexicans mortgages, and they all defaulted (because, you know what "those people" are like *wink*) and then the government had to bail out the banks.

Why did you stop pushing that one? it's even better than blaming Barney Frank, right?

I've never once blamed any racial or ethnic group or nationality for this one - ever. That's a blatant lie and you know it, just like it's a lie that this is all on Wall St and the Republicans. At least twice, Barney Frank and the Financial Services committee were warned about the housing market and/or the GSEs (by Republicans) and twice he laughed in their faces and said they didn't need to be fixed and in fact he supported making them bigger.

The people who knowingly lied on their liar loan apps are just as much to blame as the lenders who rubber stamped those applications, who are just as much to blame as the bankers who bundled and resold those loans several times over. Just like the politicians, who created the incentives for these borrowers and lenders to engage in this kind of behavior and then not only ignored the warnings but laughed at them and did everything they could to pour gas on the fire.

 

[tigermud]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600daily/


Failure 1 was blatantly irresponsible reporting. In an effort to validate their own political instincts, the mainstream media abandoned all journalistic standards and repeatedly failed the American people by accepting wild speculation as fact. They smeared calls for due process and common-sense skepticism as political “gaslighting,” rather than defending these basic principles of fairness and impartiality.


Real issues that affect Americans from coast to coast were put on the backburner as airways were flooded with false and endless “reporting” of retreaded conspiracy theories. The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, and MSNBC wrote a combined 8,507 articles citing Robert Mueller’s investigation since May 2017—an average of nearly 13 articles every single day.


The New York Times published 644 more stories mentioning the Mueller investigation than they did mentioning NAFTA renegotiations. The Washington Post wrote 192 more stories mentioning Mueller than they did America’s defeat of the Islamic State. And CNN produced a stunning 908 more stories about the investigation than they did about implementation of the biggest tax reform plan in American history.


Keep in mind, the vast majority of that was before Mueller had issued any report.
Failure 2 was Democrat recklessness. The left desperately tried to promote collusion conspiracies to rationalize their 2016 loss and sink Donald Trump’s presidency.


Here’s just a small sample of their comments—astonishing and inexcusable in light of Mueller’s report:

• House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-CA) stated that there was “plenty evidence of collusion”—and of a scandal “of a size and scope probably beyond Watergate.”
• House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler (D-NY) said he believed there “was obviously a lot of collusion.”
• Maxine Waters (D-CA) said that she was praying for the investigation to “connect the dots so that he can prove the collusion.”
• DNC Chairman Tom Perez repeatedly stated that there was a “mountain of evidence of collusion between the campaign and the Russians.”
• Numerous House and Senate Democrats called for President Trump’s impeachment long before the conclusion of the Special Counsel investigation.

“I love this country as much as I can love anything: my family, my country, my God. But what they did, it was a false narrative,” President Trump said today. “We can never let this happen to another President again.”


There’s no spinning it: Congressional Democrats, much of the mainstream media, and former Obama Administration officials peddled one of the greatest lies in American political history in a failed attempt to reverse the election of a President they simply don’t like.


The real threat to our democracy was hiding in plain sight all along.

 

[sggatecl]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600daily/

Reads like a Fox News article. Nice.

 

[sggatecl]

McConnell blocks resolution passed 420-0 in the House to release full Mueller report from being voted on in Senate.

Instead...

Gives the go ahead on a vote for "Green New Deal".

McConnell running circles around Democrats. It's like watching a kid try to wrestle their Dad.

 

[Spartanmack]

Reads like a Fox News article. Nice.

so it reads like something from an organization that's gotten it right for the last 2 years as opposed to one that's consistently parroted lies and irresponsibly reported unverified claims that have divided the country over that time?

 

[Michchamp]

McConnell blocks resolution passed 420-0 in the House to release full Mueller report from being voted on in Senate.

Instead...

Gives the go ahead on a vote for "Green New Deal".

McConnell running circles around Democrats. It's like watching a kid try to wrestle their Dad.

Reading some of Mike Lee's (R-Utah) dumb jokes mocking the Green New Deal on the floor of the Senate just now makes me hope this testimony is carved on a giant monument in the future desert wasteland that will be DC. Or maybe (assuming DC will be underwater) nearer the top of the Washington Monument, as a lesson to future generations.

 

[sggatecl]

so it reads like something from an organization that's gotten it right for the last 2 years as opposed to one that's consistently parroted lies and irresponsibly reported unverified claims that have divided the country over that time?

Anyone that claims it was a waste of time and /or money after 34 people were indicted and a sitting president was cleared of being a traitor to the United States when the majority of public opinion suspected otherwise is a party over country lacky and/or simply a short sighted idiot.

Or Fox News.

 

[sggatecl]

On a lighter note, regardless of your love/hatred of Trump, this is pretty great.

 

[Spartanmack]

Anyone that claims it was a waste of time and /or money after 34 people were indicted and a sitting president was cleared of being a traitor to the United States when the majority of public opinion suspected otherwise is a party over country lacky and/or simply a short sighted idiot.

Or Fox News.

Who was more consistently right the last 2 years, Fox News or everyone else?

anyone who thinks "the majority of the public" suspected the President was a traitor for any reason other than journalistic malfeasance and partisan treachery carried out by members of our own federal law enforcement is simply being na?ve. The fact that Comey, Brennan, Strozk, McCabe, etc haven't been indicted for virtually the same crimes (lying under oath to Congress) as many of those 34 have been is downright shameful.

and for the record, I don't watch Fox News but I'm confident they were a hell of a lot more correct in their reporting than ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, etc, etc. These assholes spent 2 years dividing the country, rushing to report uncorroborated bullshit from unidentified sources, never questioning or challenging any assertion that fit their narrative under the false pretense that they were trying to save our democracy because they didn't like the result of a legitimate democratic election. The fact that more people aren't appalled by this is disturbing.

 

[sggatecl]

anyone who thinks "the majority of the public" suspected the President was a traitor for any reason other than journalistic malfeasance and partisan treachery carried out by members of our own federal law enforcement is simply being na?ve.

Who cares why they thought he was a traitor? I've seen dozens and dozens of nonpartisan polls that showed repeatedly that the majority opinion was that Trump was complicit. Regardless of why they thought that, it was important that the American people know that their president wasn't Putin's stooge. I hate Trump and think he's a shitty president and an even worse person. I can't imagine having that opinion while ALSO thinking he's not actually in charge.

The fact that Comey, Brennan, Strozk, McCabe, etc haven't been indicted for virtually the same crimes (lying under oath to Congress) as many of those 34 have been is downright shameful.

Other than Stone and Cohen, I don't believe anyone else was indicted for lying to Congress. I could be wrong. Regardless, if any of those you mentioned lied to Congress, send them away. I wouldn't disagree.

and for the record, I don't watch Fox News but I'm confident they were a hell of a lot more correct in their reporting than ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, etc, etc.

That's like saying Bill Cosby treats women better than John Wayne Gacy. Not really a hill I'm prepared to die on. To hell with them all.

These assholes spent 2 years dividing the country, rushing to report uncorroborated bullshit from unidentified sources, never questioning or challenging any assertion that fit their narrative under the false pretense that they were trying to save our democracy because they didn't like the result of a legitimate democratic election. The fact that more people aren't appalled by this is disturbing.

Both political parties as well as both far leaning media outlets are complicit in dividing this country in their own ways, often using the same tactics though. I'm surprised you see that as a 'left only' issue.

 

[Spartanmack]

Who cares why they thought he was a traitor? I've seen dozens and dozens of nonpartisan polls that showed repeatedly that the majority opinion was that Trump was complicit. Regardless of why they thought that, it was important that the American people know that their president wasn't Putin's stooge. I hate Trump and think he's a shitty president and an even worse person. I can't imagine having that opinion while ALSO thinking he's not actually in charge.

because the "why" matters a great deal. If they reported honestly and did just a little bit of due diligence, those nonpartisan polls would probably look a lot different.

Other than Stone and Cohen, I don't believe anyone else was indicted for lying to Congress. I could be wrong. Regardless, if any of those you mentioned lied to Congress, send them away. I wouldn't disagree.

They all lied to congress and several of them lied to FISA judges to illegally obtain warrants. If this scandal was reported on even-handedly by the press, it would be a bigger national disgrace than Watergate by orders of magnitude.

That's like saying Bill Cosby treats women better than John Wayne Gacy. Not really a hill I'm prepared to die on. To hell with them all.

John Wayne Gacy killed young boys and had sex with their dead corpses. But you could have said "that's like saying Jeffrey Dahmer treated young boys better than John Wayne Gacy" and it would still be an invalid analogy. but I have no issue w/ your universal condemnation, I'd just add that I would allocate my scorn proportionally, not evenly.

Both political parties as well as both far leaning media outlets are complicit in dividing this country in their own ways, often using the same tactics though. I'm surprised you see that as a 'left only' issue.

True, but the mainstream media is just as complicit in this - it was all-in on the Trump/Russia nonsense from day 1 and their job is to be impartial, not so for political parties and partisan opinion outlets. I'm not saying it's OK for political parties to be divisive but at least there's no expectation that they be nonpartisan.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Reading some of Mike Lee's (R-Utah) dumb jokes mocking the Green New Deal on the floor of the Senate just now makes me hope this testimony is carved on a giant monument in the future desert wasteland that will be DC. Or maybe (assuming DC will be underwater) nearer the top of the Washington Monument, as a lesson to future generations.

Will pirates of the future, like Dennis Hopper in Waterworld, use it as a nautical navigation mark?

 

[tigermud]

Will pirates of the future, like Dennis Hopper in Waterworld, use it as a nautical navigation mark?

Wudda we got 12 years for this generations al gore to be wrong again

 

[tinselwolverine]

Reading some of Mike Lee's (R-Utah) dumb jokes mocking the Green New Deal on the floor of the Senate just now makes me hope this testimony is carved on a giant monument in the future desert wasteland that will be DC. Or maybe (assuming DC will be underwater) nearer the top of the Washington Monument, as a lesson to future generations.

Champ, once again you have proven to be one of my board muses-this has given me a brilliant idea for a movie.

It’s about an astronaut, George Taylor-I think I’ll use the English actor Jack Huston for some reason-who goes on a long journey into deep space.

In the opening scene Taylor is doing a captains log and giving us a little backstory-traveling near the speed of light which they are, the theory is that while the astronauts have aged just six months, 700 years has passed on earth. Taylor is giving himself a drug to render himself unconscious to continue on to the end of the journey, and wonders if 700 years evolved, has mankind overcome it’s foibles-war, starvation etc.-and is the world a better place?

Taylor wakes up on a strange planet that is fully engulfed in water and only inhabited by sea animals. The ruling animals on the planet are talking sea monkeys. The sea monkeys encounter Taylor and find him intriguing, curious and frightening. The sea monkeys take Taylor into captivity and are astonished when they discover he can speak-his first words are “take your fins off of me, you damn slimy sea monkeys!”

Various and sundry events happen as the movie goes on, some of the sea monkeys have some sympathy for Taylor, and ultimately help him escape capture-but I want to move onto the genius ending.

As Taylor rides away from his previously captor sea monkeys on a seahorse along with a hot mute chick-because every great movie needs a hot chick, and I prefer my chicks to be mute-he sees and comes upon it- the tip of the Washington Monument, rising out of the surface of the water and comes to the realization that he has returned home to earth where humankind has destroyed itself via a self inflicted wounds.

Taylor falls off of the seahorse and goes into a profane rage, cursing his deceased fellow man and wishing them damned to hell. The mute chick looks on silently and the movie comes to an end.

 

[jwlcosu]

Who was more consistently right the last 2 years, Fox News or everyone else?

anyone who thinks "the majority of the public" suspected the President was a traitor for any reason other than journalistic malfeasance and partisan treachery carried out by members of our own federal law enforcement is simply being na?ve. The fact that Comey, Brennan, Strozk, McCabe, etc haven't been indicted for virtually the same crimes (lying under oath to Congress) as many of those 34 have been is downright shameful.

and for the record, I don't watch Fox News but I'm confident they were a hell of a lot more correct in their reporting than ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, etc, etc. These assholes spent 2 years dividing the country, rushing to report uncorroborated bullshit from unidentified sources, never questioning or challenging any assertion that fit their narrative under the false pretense that they were trying to save our democracy because they didn't like the result of a legitimate democratic election. The fact that more people aren't appalled by this is disturbing.

It?s not even a question as to who was more consistently right. The way the media apart from Fox covered the collusion hoax is a disaster that leaves the industry in tatters, with zero credibility. CNN, MSNBC, NBC, NYT, WAPO and others are a wing of the democrat party. They were actively promoting the collusion hoax and now they are outed. They were never right. They fueled the hoax.

If you don?t know the names Sara Carter and John Solomon, you don?t the collusion story. If you?re not getting dressed for work with Maria Bartiromo on in the background, you are missing a powerful voice of truth and accuracy.

 

[Michchamp]

Champ, once again you have proven to be one of my board muses-this has given me a brilliant idea for a movie.

It?s about an astronaut, George Taylor-I think I?ll use the English actor Jack Huston for some reason-who goes on a long journey into deep space.

In the opening scene Taylor is doing a captains log and giving us a little backstory-traveling near the speed of light which they are, the theory is that while the astronauts have aged just six months, 700 years has passed on earth. Taylor is giving himself a drug to render himself unconscious to continue on to the end of the journey, and wonders if 700 years evolved, has mankind overcome it?s foibles-war, starvation etc.-and is the world a better place?

Taylor wakes up on a strange planet that is fully engulfed in water and only inhabited by sea animals. The ruling animals on the planet are talking sea monkeys. The sea monkeys encounter Taylor and find him intriguing, curious and frightening. The sea monkeys take Taylor into captivity and are astonished when they discover he can speak-his first words are ?take your fins off of me, you damn slimy sea monkeys!?

Various and sundry events happen as the movie goes on, some of the sea monkeys have some sympathy for Taylor, and ultimately help him escape capture-but I want to move onto the genius ending.

As Taylor rides away from his previously captor sea monkeys on a seahorse along with a hot mute chick-because every great movie needs a hot chick, and I prefer my chicks to be mute-he sees and comes upon it- the tip of the Washington Monument, rising out of the surface of the water and comes to the realization that he has returned home to earth where humankind has destroyed itself via a self inflicted wounds.

Taylor falls off of the seahorse and goes into a profane rage, cursing his deceased fellow man and wishing them damned to hell. The mute chick looks on silently and the movie comes to an end.

I think it sounds like you've written a great plot...






... for a copyright infringement lawsuit!




But just for fun...

​

 

[tinselwolverine]

Anyone that claims it was a waste of time and /or money after 34 people were indicted and a sitting president was cleared of being a traitor to the United States when the majority of public opinion suspected otherwise is a party over country lacky and/or simply a short sighted idiot.

Or Fox News.

I think it sounds like you've written a great plot...






... for a copyright infringement lawsuit!




But just for fun...

​

To be fair?she had a number of speaking roles?she wasn?t mute in real life.