I thought Republicans...

[Sbee]

How can it be so obvious with respect to voter ID laws when the Supreme Court has ruled that they don't pose an undue burden? How can something that doesn't pose a burden pose an undue burden just on minorities? Maybe you're just another hoodwinked sheep who believes all the leftist talking points about how everything conservatives do is racist.

The Texas case was clearly about women's health and Roe v Wade was wrong because the fools that decided it ignored the constitutional rights of other human beings - the unborn, who are humans and have constitutional rights. The court didn't decide they weren't human, certain justices just ignored them.

Wow, in your first paragraph you use a supreme court decision as evidence on why something was constitutional and then in the next paragraph dismiss a supreme court decision for ignoring the constitution? Is the supreme court the arbiter of of what's constitutional or not? does it depend on the case and if their decision supports your opinion?

 

[byco42]

Abortion kills women after the fact. The death rates are 4x higher with the first year for women who have had abortions than who give birth.

Link

I have seen this occur where I live. The staff was more concerned whether or not I was recording the event. I wasn't. Abortion is the scourge of civilization.

 

[Sbee]

Abortion kills women after the fact. The death rates are 4x higher with the first year for women who have had abortions than who give birth.

Link

I have seen this occur where I live. The staff was more concerned whether or not I was recording the event. I wasn't. Abortion is the scourge of civilization.

I do see that women who have abortions are 4x likely to die by homicide than women who don't get pregnant and 5x more likely than women who give birth. I think that's the perfect example of correlation instead of causation. It's safe to say that women who have abortions are less likely to be married and more likely to be poor. Do you think those things lead to a higher likelihood of death given the same age range?

but of course the article is titled "abortion kills women" and then it cites homicide and accidental deaths as causes. really?

 

[Spartanmack]

Wow, in your first paragraph you use a supreme court decision as evidence on why something was constitutional and then in the next paragraph dismiss a supreme court decision for ignoring the constitution? Is the supreme court the arbiter of of what's constitutional or not? does it depend on the case and if their decision supports your opinion?

do you not see a difference between the 2? The supreme court said there is no undue burden and you have no data to say there is, you also have no data to show voter ID laws are racist. You just have DNC talking points and an instance where they were packaged with other changes in a law in North Carolina.

but the Supreme Court is not perfect - in Roe v. Wade, which by the way was decided by an entirely different court - they ignored the rights of certain human beings. That's a big difference.

 

[byco42]

I do see that women who have abortions are 4x likely to die by homicide than women who don't get pregnant and 5x more likely than women who give birth. I think that's the perfect example of correlation instead of causation. It's safe to say that women who have abortions are less likely to be married and more likely to be poor. Do you think those things lead to a higher likelihood of death given the same age range?

but of course the article is titled "abortion kills women" and then it cites homicide and accidental deaths as causes. really?

This study was conducted in Finland. Of the women who died (281) within a year of an abortion:

77 committed suicide (27%)
57 died by accident (20%)
14 by homicide (7%)

"Of the 281 deaths, 127 (45 percent) were attributed to natural causes."

Apparently you only looked at the pictures?

 

[Spartanmack]

I do see that women who have abortions are 4x likely to die by homicide than women who don't get pregnant and 5x more likely than women who give birth. I think that's the perfect example of correlation instead of causation. It's safe to say that women who have abortions are less likely to be married and more likely to be poor. Do you think those things lead to a higher likelihood of death given the same age range?

but of course the article is titled "abortion kills women" and then it cites homicide and accidental deaths as causes. really?

did you really read it? because only 14 of the 281 women who died in the study died by homicide. the most were due to natural causes (127) and accidents (57). However, more than 25% of the women who died within a year of their last pregnancy (77), committed suicide and women who had an abortion were more than 7x more likely to commit suicide than women who gave birth.

 

[Sbee]

This study was conducted in Finland. Of the women who died (281) within a year of an abortion:

77 committed suicide (27%)
57 died by accident (20%)
14 by homicide (7%)

"Of the 281 deaths, 127 (45 percent) were attributed to natural causes."

Apparently you only looked at the pictures?

It's correlation vs causation. People who are more likely to have unprotected, unmarried sex are more likely to engage in other risky behaviors. They're also more likely to be poor and in a healthy relationship. the women who had abortions were less likely to die of natural causes than women who didn't have a child. the study clearly concludes that women who have abortions are more likely to die in the following year, the study does not in any way, shape, or form show that there is any connection between the abortion and death.

It's a weak argument. If you disagree with abortion because you believe that life begins at conception, that's your choice and it's a valid one, but this is a weak argument at best.

 

[Sbee]

did you really read it? because only 14 of the 281 women who died in the study died by homicide. the most were due to natural causes (127) and accidents (57). However, more than 25% of the women who died within a year of their last pregnancy (77), committed suicide and women who had an abortion were more than 7x more likely to commit suicide than women who gave birth.

the really funny thing about you is that you're against forcing employers to provide birth control, against abortion (shockingly greater access to birth control means fewer abortions), and you also bitch about welfare recipients.

You want to make it harder for women to get birth control, then you want them to have the baby, but once the baby is born.............you're on your own............whore.

 

[Spartanmack]

the really funny thing about you is that you're against forcing employers to provide birth control, against abortion (shockingly greater access to birth control means fewer abortions), and you also bitch about welfare recipients.

You want to make it harder for women to get birth control, then you want them to have the baby, but once the baby is born.............you're on your own............whore.

I have never once bitched about welfare recipients - unless you think calling for welfare reform is bitching about welfare recipients. Forcing employers to compensate their employees with birth control doesn't increase access to it. Birth control is easier to get than an ID. Anyone can get it and it's cheap - not forcing employers who object to it doesn't make it harder for them to get - it just means they have to pay for it themselves (shockingly, taking responsibility for oneself leads to fewer unwanted pregnancies). That argument is complete nonsense.

 

[Sbee]

do you not see a difference between the 2? The supreme court said there is no undue burden and you have no data to say there is, you also have no data to show voter ID laws are racist. You just have DNC talking points and an instance where they were packaged with other changes in a law in North Carolina.

but the Supreme Court is not perfect - in Roe v. Wade, which by the way was decided by an entirely different court - they ignored the rights of certain human beings. That's a big difference.

The supreme court isn't perfect, they're just right when you agree with them and wrong when you disagree with them.

As for voter ID laws being racist, let me tell you a bunch of things that you already know. The most common state issued ID is a drivers license, in states like Wisconsin, 80% of whites over 18 have a drivers license, 50% of blacks and Latinos have them. Studies have continued to show that whites are much more likely to have drivers licenses (and more likely to vote republican, who knew?) The people who don't have licenses are more likely to be poor and live in urban areas, if you can't afford a car or take public transportation, you don't need a drivers license. Poor people and minorities are also more likely to have licenses revoked due to failure to pay outstanding fines. Of course you can get a state issued ID, but doing that requires social security card and birth certificate, if you don't have those handy, as a lot of poor people don't, getting new ones can take time and money. I understand that the court ruled that these laws are not unconstitutional, but that doesn't mean that they aren't passed with the intent of keeping poor minorities from voting for democrats.

A few weeks ago, a federal appeals court ruled that Texas' voter ID law had a discriminatory impact on voters. About a week after that a three-judge panel overturned North Carolina's voter ID law (which included a host of other voting restrictions, including shortening the early voting period and banning same-day registration) they also ruled that North Carolina Republicans had actually passed the law with discriminatory intent.

 

[Spartanmack]

The supreme court isn't perfect, they're just right when you agree with them and wrong when you disagree with them.

As for voter ID laws being racist, let me tell you a bunch of things that you already know. The most common state issued ID is a drivers license, in states like Wisconsin, 80% of whites over 18 have a drivers license, 50% of blacks and Latinos have them. Studies have continued to show that whites are much more likely to have drivers licenses (and more likely to vote republican, who knew?) The people who don't have licenses are more likely to be poor and live in urban areas, if you can't afford a car or take public transportation, you don't need a drivers license. Poor people and minorities are also more likely to have licenses revoked due to failure to pay outstanding fines. Of course you can get a state issued ID, but doing that requires social security card and birth certificate, if you don't have those handy, as a lot of poor people don't, getting new ones can take time and money. I understand that the court ruled that these laws are not unconstitutional, but that doesn't mean that they aren't passed with the intent of keeping poor minorities from voting for democrats.

A few weeks ago, a federal appeals court ruled that Texas' voter ID law had a discriminatory impact on voters. About a week after that a three-judge panel overturned North Carolina's voter ID law (which included a host of other voting restrictions, including shortening the early voting period and banning same-day registration) they also ruled that North Carolina Republicans had actually passed the law with discriminatory intent.

you can get a non drivers license state issued ID in any state. you don't even have to be smart enough to pass the driving test. thanks for telling me a few useless things I already know that don't mean anything and don't make voter ID laws racist.

 

[Spartanmack]

It's correlation vs causation. People who are more likely to have unprotected, unmarried sex are more likely to engage in other risky behaviors. They're also more likely to be poor and in a healthy relationship. the women who had abortions were less likely to die of natural causes than women who didn't have a child. the study clearly concludes that women who have abortions are more likely to die in the following year, the study does not in any way, shape, or form show that there is any connection between the abortion and death.

It's a weak argument. If you disagree with abortion because you believe that life begins at conception, that's your choice and it's a valid one, but this is a weak argument at best.

it clearly shows in the second leading cause of death, suicide, women who had abortions are more than 7x more like to take their own lives. you may have a point about the homicide victims but they in total were less than 5% of the sample so you're attempt to dismiss the results as correlation don't really hold up.

and if you think and unborn human doesn't have rights, that's your choice bit it's not a valid one - it's extremely weak at best but not the least but surprising after all, you're he guy who once said a baby in the womb is by definition a parasite. where did you get that gem from? some feminist who just took her first biology class?

 

[Sbee]

you can get a non drivers license state issued ID in any state. you don't even have to be smart enough to pass the driving test. thanks for telling me a few useless things I already know that don't mean anything and don't make voter ID laws racist.

Republicans use voter ID laws as a way to create roadblocks for poor minorities from voting for democrats. Minorities are less likely to have a state issued ID and more likely to vote for democrats. You can say that it's somewhat easy to get a state ID, that's valid, given that you have your birth certificate. If you don't, it's $32 to order one online, or 4 hours of work for a minimum wage worker. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going on here.

 

[Sbee]

it clearly shows in the second leading cause of death, suicide, women who had abortions are more than 7x more like to take their own lives. you may have a point about the homicide victims but they in total were less than 5% of the sample so you're attempt to dismiss the results as correlation don't really hold up.

and if you think and unborn human doesn't have rights, that's your choice bit it's not a valid one - it's extremely weak at best but not the least but surprising after all, you're he guy who once said a baby in the womb is by definition a parasite. where did you get that gem from? some feminist who just took her first biology class?

Yes, women who have abortions are more likely to commit suicide, what it can't show is that abortion is the cause of that suicide. It's valid to say that abortion may contribute to the suicide in some cases but it's obvious that there are many differences in women who have abortions vs those that give birth and don't get pregnant given the same age range. Women who have abortions are obviously less likely to be in stable, loving relationships with their partners. They are also less likely to have the money to support a child, so there are socioeconomic factors at play too. I'd say those demographic differences are the overwhelming reason why women who have abortions are more likely to die in the year afterwards. Correlation isn't the same as causation, you should know this, actually, I'm sure you do.


As for the parasite comment, it was just a way to rebuke the notion that the rights of a person start at conception. That's the core of the abortion issue, when is a fetus granted personhood? On a personal level, I would never have my wife get an abortion. I remember when I was younger and unmarried, when my girlfriend was late I remember being scared to death but also being unsure as to what to do if she was in fact pregnant, it wasn't a done deal by any means. I feel that way but I also have the means and support network to raise a child comfortably now, so though abortion is not now and wouldn't have likely been the choice we would have made, I can't speak for others so I stand up for their constitutional right to make their own decision. When personhood is granted is hardly objective so I don't impose my views on others who may think differently.

 

[byco42]

It's correlation vs causation. People who are more likely to have unprotected, unmarried sex are more likely to engage in other risky behaviors. They're also more likely to be poor and in a healthy relationship. the women who had abortions were less likely to die of natural causes than women who didn't have a child. the study clearly concludes that women who have abortions are more likely to die in the following year, the study does not in any way, shape, or form show that there is any connection between the abortion and death.

From the study:

"...researchers identified 281 women who had died within a year of their last pregnancy. The unadjusted mortality rate per 100,000 cases was 27 for women who had given birth, 48 for women who had miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies, and 101 for women who had abortion.

"Abortion, on the other hand, is clearly linked to a dramatic increase in suicide risk. This statistical finding is corroborated by interview-based studies which have consistently shown extraordinarily high levels of suicidal ideation (30-55 percent) and reports of suicide attempts (7-30 percent) among women who have had an abortion.(5) In many of these studies, the women interviewed have explicitly described the abortion as the cause of their suicidal impulses.

"Women who had borne children had half the risk of suffering a fatal accident compared to the general population. On the other hand, as shown in Figure 3, women who aborted were more than twice as likely to die from a fatal accident than women in the general population."

It's a weak argument. If you disagree with abortion because you believe that life begins at conception, that's your choice and it's a valid one, but this is a weak argument at best.

The study acknowledges your point, by the way. But the numbers are still glaringly obvious. It's in no way "weak."

"Clearly, the odds of a woman dying within a year of having an abortion are significantly higher than for women who carry to term or have a natural miscarriage."

 

[Sbee]

From the study:

"...researchers identified 281 women who had died within a year of their last pregnancy. The unadjusted mortality rate per 100,000 cases was 27 for women who had given birth, 48 for women who had miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies, and 101 for women who had abortion.

"Abortion, on the other hand, is clearly linked to a dramatic increase in suicide risk. This statistical finding is corroborated by interview-based studies which have consistently shown extraordinarily high levels of suicidal ideation (30-55 percent) and reports of suicide attempts (7-30 percent) among women who have had an abortion.(5) In many of these studies, the women interviewed have explicitly described the abortion as the cause of their suicidal impulses.

"Women who had borne children had half the risk of suffering a fatal accident compared to the general population. On the other hand, as shown in Figure 3, women who aborted were more than twice as likely to die from a fatal accident than women in the general population."



The study acknowledges your point, by the way. But the numbers are still glaringly obvious. It's in no way "weak."

"Clearly, the odds of a woman dying within a year of having an abortion are significantly higher than for women who carry to term or have a natural miscarriage."

I agree with the study, the odds of dying in the year after having an abortion are much higher than women who didn't have one. The weak portion is that you and other advocates use this as a way to prove that abortion is somehow dangerous, but there is no link between the actual abortion and death, the reasons for death have essentially nothing to do with the abortion and more to do with life choices and demographics.

 

[byco42]

I agree with the study, the odds of dying in the year after having an abortion are much higher than women who didn't have one. The weak portion is that you and other advocates use this as a way to prove that abortion is somehow dangerous, but there is no link between the actual abortion and death, the reasons for death have essentially nothing to do with the abortion and more to do with life choices and demographics.

There will be approximately 3,000 abortions performed in in U.S. today and none of them will be dangerous?

 

[Sbee]

There will be approximately 3,000 abortions performed in in U.S. today and none of them will be dangerous?

nowhere close to the danger of the 4 million births that will happen in the US today. Abortion is 14 times more safe than childbirth.

 

[Michchamp]

sounds to me like the christian god punishes women who have abortions by killing them in random accidents months after the fact!

oh, a vengeful god is he. woe be to us for violating his will.

i now support taking away this right from women. the Lord's will be done.

please sign me up as a member of Byco's new American Theocracy. I want to make sure I am on the right side of history here, so I don't end up dead under a pile of stones or a crispy burnt corpse tied to a stake.

 

[Mitchrapp]

...had a monopoly on election fraud (despite the evidence to the contrary). This group of Bernie supporters says otherwise...

https://www.facebook.com/WTFUmedia/videos/276540419382225/

of course they're Bernie Sanders supporters so I can't vouch for the accuracy of any of this. Maybe they had some smart people research it and put it together for them.

First off you're wrong. The dems are always leading the clubhouse in voter fraud. Everyone knows that.. From illegals to prison inmates.