I thought Republicans...

[Mitchrapp]

nowhere close to the danger of the 4 million births that will happen in the US today. Abortion is 14 times more safe than childbirth.

No-brainer. Baby dies vs maybe they do.

 

[Sbee]

No-brainer. Baby dies vs maybe they do.

This is a discussion about the health and safety of the mother, but you knew that, at least I think you did.

 

[byco42]

nowhere close to the danger of the 4 million births that will happen in the US today. Abortion is 14 times more safe than childbirth.

There will be 10,000 births in U.S. today. And for every "abortion is safer" study you can dig up, I can source a "childbirth is safer" study, and childbirth is certainly much safer for the baby than is abortion.

 

[Mitchrapp]

This is a discussion about the health and safety of the mother, but you knew that, at least I think you did.

If a mom was giving birth, regardless the views - only one could live the Mom would want Baby born. Human nature. Baby always comes first.

 

[tinselwolverine]

If a mom was giving birth, regardless the views - only one could live the Mom would want Baby born. Human nature. Baby always comes first.

Right.

That's why so many women choose for the baby to die and themselves to live in that situation.

Human nature.

 

[Mitchrapp]

This is a discussion about the health and safety of the mother, but you knew that, at least I think you did.

Right.

That's why so many women choose for the baby to die and themselves to live in that situation.

Human nature.

No they don't. No one goes 9 months with a baby and then chooses to not save the baby.

 

[KAWDUP]

sounds to me like the christian god punishes women who have abortions by killing them in random accidents months after the fact!

oh, a vengeful god is he. woe be to us for violating his will.

You attributing that to God, as opposed to free will, is exactly the kind of thing that would make Christians say "You just don't get it."

He doesn't ask you to bend to His will. All these things you attribute to His will show you are way more jaded than we originally thought.

Byco, I think it is going to take longer than we thought with this one.

 

[byco42]

You attributing that to God, as opposed to free will, is exactly the kind of thing that would make Christians say "You just don't get it."

He doesn't ask you to bend to His will. All these things you attribute to His will show you are way more jaded than we originally thought.

Byco, I think it is going to take longer than we thought with this one.

In the objections are the answers.

 

[Spartanmack]

First off you're wrong. The dems are always leading the clubhouse in voter fraud. Everyone knows that.. From illegals to prison inmates.

First off, you clearly didn't understand what I was saying in my post. Your inability to spot sarcasm doesn't make me wrong. This debate has been raging for years and there is always a handful of leftists who deny the possibility of Dem voter fraud but decry the Republicans for their efforts to disenfranchise everyone who isn't a Christian white male. There's usually a healthy dose of sarcasm in the threads I start.

 

[byco42]

sounds to me like the christian god punishes women who have abortions by killing them in random accidents months after the fact!

oh, a vengeful god is he. woe be to us for violating his will.

i now support taking away this right from women. the Lord's will be done.

please sign me up as a member of Byco's new American Theocracy. I want to make sure I am on the right side of history here, so I don't end up dead under a pile of stones or a crispy burnt corpse tied to a stake.

Are you sure you are not perhaps misrepresenting yourself as an adult? Because these rants are representative of someone still in the process of challenging his high-school religion teacher.

 

[Spartanmack]

This is a discussion about the health and safety of the mother, but you knew that, at least I think you did.

no we're also talking about the rights of the victims of this most barbaric and savage practice.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yes, women who have abortions are more likely to commit suicide, what it can't show is that abortion is the cause of that suicide. It's valid to say that abortion may contribute to the suicide in some cases but it's obvious that there are many differences in women who have abortions vs those that give birth and don't get pregnant given the same age range. Women who have abortions are obviously less likely to be in stable, loving relationships with their partners. They are also less likely to have the money to support a child, so there are socioeconomic factors at play too. I'd say those demographic differences are the overwhelming reason why women who have abortions are more likely to die in the year afterwards. Correlation isn't the same as causation, you should know this, actually, I'm sure you do.

You didn't read the study - at least read Byco's post immediately following yours where abortion is cited by the women as a significant factor in suicide ideation - that's clear indication of cause.

 

[Michchamp]

Are you sure you are not perhaps misrepresenting yourself as an adult? Because these rants are representative of someone still in the process of challenging his high-school religion teacher.

yes, I am sure.

 

[Sbee]

You didn't read the study - at least read Byco's post immediately following yours where abortion is cited by the women as a significant factor in suicide ideation - that's clear indication of cause.

Yes, I read a subjective statement that in many studies the abortion is a cause of their suicidal impulses with no specifics whatsoever. It's obviously subjective, I'm sure a lot of the impulses have to do with getting pregnant while not in a stable loving relationship that would welcome a child, not having the financial resources or support network. Again, correlation vs causation, maybe abortion causes people to get up on ladders and fall off too.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yes, I read a subjective statement that in many studies the abortion is a cause of their suicidal impulses with no specifics whatsoever. It's obviously subjective, I'm sure a lot of the impulses have to do with getting pregnant while not in a stable loving relationship that would welcome a child, not having the financial resources or support network. Again, correlation vs causation, maybe abortion causes people to get up on ladders and fall off too.

I don't think you know what subjective means.

"Abortion, on the other hand, is clearly linked to a dramatic increase in suicide risk. This statistical finding is corroborated by interview-based studies which have consistently shown extraordinarily high levels of suicidal ideation (30-55 percent) and reports of suicide attempts (7-30 percent) among women who have had an abortion.(5) In many of these studies, the women interviewed have explicitly described the abortion as the cause of their suicidal impulses.

When women identify their abortions as the cause of their suicidal impulses, that's not really subjective. What is subjective is your baseless supposition that all or even most of the poor women are having abortions. Plenty of poor women have babies, yet they clearly don't kill themselves at the same rate as women who do.

And women who have abortions aren't 7x more likely to die by accident within a year as women who give birth. I don't think anyone is concerned about that - except people who are trying to diminish the impact abortion has on suicide rates - 7x, massive outlier, must be correlation because we know abortion is a net positive for women - Roe vs. Wade proved there is nothing wrong with and no downside to murdering innocent, defenseless humans.

 

[Sbee]

I don't think you know what subjective means.

"Abortion, on the other hand, is clearly linked to a dramatic increase in suicide risk. This statistical finding is corroborated by interview-based studies which have consistently shown extraordinarily high levels of suicidal ideation (30-55 percent) and reports of suicide attempts (7-30 percent) among women who have had an abortion.(5) In many of these studies, the women interviewed have explicitly described the abortion as the cause of their suicidal impulses.

When women identify their abortions as the cause of their suicidal impulses, that's not really subjective. What is subjective is your baseless supposition that all or even most of the poor women are having abortions. Plenty of poor women have babies, yet they clearly don't kill themselves at the same rate as women who do.

And women who have abortions aren't 7x more likely to die by accident within a year as women who give birth. I don't think anyone is concerned about that - except people who are trying to diminish the impact abortion has on suicide rates - 7x, massive outlier, must be correlation because we know abortion is a net positive for women - Roe vs. Wade proved there is nothing wrong with and no downside to murdering innocent, defenseless humans.

As for your smoking gun statements in bold, studies have consistently shown extraordinarily high levels of suicidal ideation. Well no shit, people who are more likely to commit suicide are more likely to have suicidal thoughts. the second statement in bold is that in many of these studies, the women interviewed have explicitly described the abortion as the cause. That's clearly vague, doesn't quantify anything and doesn't acknowledge other factors.

Can you explain why they are more likely to be murdered or die in an accident? Common sense tells you that not having the financial means or support network to raise a child is a factor in the decision to have an abortion, along with not being married or in a relationship that was stable enough to bring a child into. Having a child when a single woman is not ready is generally a quick ticket to poverty if you're not there already. It doesn't take a genius to connect these dots. I get that you think abortion is murder even though it doesn't fit a legal definition of murder, but do you have to try to impose your own definition of murder on everyone else? Like you, I'm pro life personally but I can't impose my views on others who feel differently. I think abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. That starts with easy access to birth control for everyone who wants it to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place and unobstructed access to abortion for those who so choose. We don't want restrictive laws like they have in Mississippi where there is only one abortion clinic in the entire state which makes it harder for those without the means to drive for hours for a consult and then wait 3 days for the procedure. Texas laws were intended to shut the majority of clinics down for not having 8ft hallways. I'm sure you long for the days of the DIY abortions due to restrictive policies, note that search terms like "how to have a miscarriage" with the highest rate of these searches coming in, you guessed it, Mississippi

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/opinion/sunday/the-return-of-the-diy-abortion.html?_r=0

 

[byco42]

Reasons women abort:
Failure of birth control methods.
Lifestyle change "not ready for a child."
Can't afford it.

So approximately 1,000,000 babies in the U.S. will never see the light of day in 2016. Unconscionable, when the option to give the baby up for adoption is viable.

 

[Spartanmack]

As for your smoking gun statements in bold, studies have consistently shown extraordinarily high levels of suicidal ideation. Well no shit, people who are more likely to commit suicide are more likely to have suicidal thoughts. the second statement in bold is that in many of these studies, the women interviewed have explicitly described the abortion as the cause. That's clearly vague, doesn't quantify anything and doesn't acknowledge other factors.

Can you explain why they are more likely to be murdered or die in an accident? Common sense tells you that not having the financial means or support network to raise a child is a factor in the decision to have an abortion, along with not being married or in a relationship that was stable enough to bring a child into. Having a child when a single woman is not ready is generally a quick ticket to poverty if you're not there already. It doesn't take a genius to connect these dots. I get that you think abortion is murder even though it doesn't fit a legal definition of murder, but do you have to try to impose your own definition of murder on everyone else? Like you, I'm pro life personally but I can't impose my views on others who feel differently. I think abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. That starts with easy access to birth control for everyone who wants it to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place and unobstructed access to abortion for those who so choose. We don't want restrictive laws like they have in Mississippi where there is only one abortion clinic in the entire state which makes it harder for those without the means to drive for hours for a consult and then wait 3 days for the procedure. Texas laws were intended to shut the majority of clinics down for not having 8ft hallways. I'm sure you long for the days of the DIY abortions due to restrictive policies, note that search terms like "how to have a miscarriage" with the highest rate of these searches coming in, you guessed it, Mississippi

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/06/opinion/sunday/the-return-of-the-diy-abortion.html?_r=0

less than 5% of the women in the study were murdered so you're working with a very small, unreliable sample size. As for accidents, it's also a smaller sample size AND the differential is less than half that for suicide. Do you not see the difference here? It's significant. What common sense tells you is that when women say their abortions were the reason they thought of killing themselves, that's not subjective. As for the legal definition of murder, it only doesn't fit because of a wrong-headed supreme court decision - otherwise it's the most egregious form of murder that exists. And you're not pro life, you're clearly pro abortion. Calling yourself pro life is like Nancy Pelosi saying she is Catholic.

 

[Michchamp]

abortion was most famously debated by Keanu Reeves and Jeff Daniels in Speed...

"Pop Quiz, hotshot..."

"abort the baby. it's the only way to save the mother's life."

no wonder Republitards hated it.

 

[Spartanmack]

abortion was most famously debated by Keanu Reeves and Jeff Daniels in Speed...

"Pop Quiz, hotshot..."

"abort the baby. it's the only way to save the mother's life."

no wonder Republitards hated it.

I think "hated" is too strong of a word. Granted, it was no Point Break but then Jeff Daniels is no Patrick Swayze.