I thought Republicans...

[Sbee]

If the baby in the womb is the property of the mother, why should there be limitations to her right to an abortion?

I could quote George Bernard Shaw here, but it's not needed.

The viable option is have the child and put it up for adoption.



I was/am far from perfect. And sex-ed for teens should center on abstinence and chastity (in the true sense of the term). Encouraging birth-control methods other than that leads to unwanted pregnancies and abortions.

Good luck with teenagers practicing abstinence!

 

[byco42]

Good luck with teenagers practicing abstinence!

Including your own? I know a lot on teenagers who do so. It's not unreasonable to expect this of our youth.

 

[Sbee]

Including your own? I know a lot on teenagers who do so. It's not unreasonable to expect this of our youth.

I know there are a lot of anecdotal examples, good for them, but it's not realistic to expect abstinence only programs to be effective. Balanced sexual education is the only real option. Contraceptive use is the surest way to prevent teen pregnancy.

I want to make abortion rare, but I'm not naive about young people

 

[byco42]

I know there are a lot of anecdotal examples, good for them, but it's not realistic to expect abstinence only programs to be effective. Balanced sexual education is the only real option. Contraceptive use is the surest way to prevent teen pregnancy.

"Over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant." Source, Web MD. So, not so much.

I want to make abortion rare, but I'm not naive about young people

3,000 a day in the U.S. is not rare. If that many people a day were getting killed with handguns, the furor would be deafening.

 

[Sbee]

"Over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant." Source, Web MD. So, not so much.

3,000 a day in the U.S. is not rare. If that many people a day were getting killed with handguns, the furor would be deafening.

Ok, how many women who became pregnant also had unprotected sex? Your Stat is misleading, if you used a condom 8 of 10 times, that counts for the numbers you referenced.

You and I both want to lower the abortions performed but my position is realistic.

 

[tomdalton22]

so abortions are preventing about 1,100,000 unwanted children from being born every year.

 

[Spartanmack]

Ok, how many women who became pregnant also had unprotected sex? Your Stat is misleading, if you used a condom 8 of 10 times, that counts for the numbers you referenced.

You and I both want to lower the abortions performed but my position is realistic.

the point is, people get lazy about contraception and slip up and don't use it. It's clearly not the most effective way to prevent teen pregnancy - abstinence is, and it's not even close.

 

[Sbee]

the point is, people get lazy about contraception and slip up and don't use it. It's clearly not the most effective way to prevent teen pregnancy - abstinence is, and it's not even close.

no shit abstinence is more effective, 3% of Americans wait until they're married to have sex. Let's say you launch a super effective abstinence only campaign and you double the rate of people waiting until marriage, don't you think you should focus on the other 94% as well? Sexual education needs to be balanced, including abstinence but also giving medically accurate information about all forms of contraception. This strict catholic view of eliminating abortion and birth control usage because nobody is having pre marital sex is utopian at best but really, just naive.

http://waitingtillmarriage.org/4-cool-statistics-about-abstinence-in-the-usa/

 

[Spartanmack]

no shit abstinence is more effective, 3% of Americans wait until they're married to have sex. Let's say you launch a super effective abstinence only campaign and you double the rate of people waiting until marriage, don't you think you should focus on the other 94% as well? Sexual education needs to be balanced, including abstinence but also giving medically accurate information about all forms of contraception. This strict catholic view of eliminating abortion and birth control usage because nobody is having pre marital sex is utopian at best but really, just naive.

http://waitingtillmarriage.org/4-cool-statistics-about-abstinence-in-the-usa/

what do you mean, no shit? you just said contraception is the surest way to prevent teen pregnancy. Here's the quote:

I know there are a lot of anecdotal examples, good for them, but it's not realistic to expect abstinence only programs to be effective. Balanced sexual education is the only real option. Contraceptive use is the surest way to prevent teen pregnancy.

And you don't have to double the number of people who wait until marriage. Your 3% number is almost completely irrelevant. Adults are much less of a concern and generally aren't in need of sex education. It would be smart for them to abstain but they tend to be much more responsible than teens. What you need is a dramatic increase in the number of teens who abstain from sex. Today, 53% of high school aged kids say they have NOT had sex. From 1991 to 2013, the % of kids who have had sex DECREASED from 54% to 47%, so your claim that teaching and promoting abstinence first is unrealistic simply isn't true.

 

[Michchamp]

Do I need to try to reword something?

that was supposed to be in reference to byco's last post. yours wasn't there when i posted.

like... okay so sex ed is what encourages kids to have sex? yeah nothing got my hormones boiling more than sitting in a classroom, listening to some frumpy 40-something drone on about the sexual organs, while pointing to the illustrations from an anatomy book. Seeing what the ovaries look like was a huge turn on...

 

[byco42]

that was supposed to be in reference to byco's last post. yours wasn't there when i posted.

like... okay so sex ed is what encourages kids to have sex? yeah nothing got my hormones boiling more than sitting in a classroom, listening to some frumpy 40-something drone on about the sexual organs, while pointing to the illustrations from an anatomy book. Seeing what the ovaries look like was a huge turn on...

Show me where I said that.

 

[Michchamp]

Show me where I said that.

you said sex ed needs to be focused on chastity or it leads to more sex.

could anything be LESS sexy than sex ed though? I would be very surprised to learn that two kids decided to fuck because some junior high phys ed teacher explained how to put a condom on.

 

[byco42]

you said sex ed needs to be focused on chastity or it leads to more sex.

could anything be LESS sexy than sex ed though? I would be very surprised to learn that two kids decided to fuck because some junior high phys ed teacher explained how to put a condom on.

What I said: "And sex-ed for teens should center on abstinence and chastity (in the true sense of the term). Encouraging birth-control methods other than that leads to unwanted pregnancies and abortions."

I believe that. "If you are going to have sex, use birth control" is not sex-ed. It's sex-enabling. Will kids "do it" anyway? Yes, but tell me anything positive that results from teens having sex. How it's beneficial. There must be a long list.

 

[tomdalton22]

tell me anything positive that results from teens having sex. How it's beneficial. There must be a long list.

1) It's fun so they are enjoying themselves

2) They will likely be better at it when they get to college by practicing

3) babies

 

[Sbee]

what do you mean, no shit? you just said contraception is the surest way to prevent teen pregnancy. Here's the quote:



And you don't have to double the number of people who wait until marriage. Your 3% number is almost completely irrelevant. Adults are much less of a concern and generally aren't in need of sex education. It would be smart for them to abstain but they tend to be much more responsible than teens. What you need is a dramatic increase in the number of teens who abstain from sex. Today, 53% of high school aged kids say they have NOT had sex. From 1991 to 2013, the % of kids who have had sex DECREASED from 54% to 47%, so your claim that teaching and promoting abstinence first is unrealistic simply isn't true.

Contraception is the surest way to prevent pregnancy for kids having sex, I think it goes without saying that you're not going to get pregnant if you don't have sex in the first place. I'd have to see the stats on the 53%, I've read the same thing but if that includes all kids 14-19, it would be a very low percentage for kids closer to 14, higher for older teens. There could be other reasons for the drop, not just abstinence only sex ed, like maybe that just about every kid has easy access to pornography on their phones. Reducing the number of teens having sex is admirable but focusing on abstinence only sex education is doing our teens a disservice, not fully educating them on proper methods to prevent pregnancy and std's if they do engage in sexual activity.

 

[Sbee]

What I said: "And sex-ed for teens should center on abstinence and chastity (in the true sense of the term). Encouraging birth-control methods other than that leads to unwanted pregnancies and abortions."

I believe that. "If you are going to have sex, use birth control" is not sex-ed. It's sex-enabling. Will kids "do it" anyway? Yes, but tell me anything positive that results from teens having sex. How it's beneficial. There must be a long list.

I think you're confusing enabling and educating.

 

[Spartanmack]

Contraception is the surest way to prevent pregnancy for kids having sex, I think it goes without saying that you're not going to get pregnant if you don't have sex in the first place. I'd have to see the stats on the 53%, I've read the same thing but if that includes all kids 14-19, it would be a very low percentage for kids closer to 14, higher for older teens. There could be other reasons for the drop, not just abstinence only sex ed, like maybe that just about every kid has easy access to pornography on their phones. Reducing the number of teens having sex is admirable but focusing on abstinence only sex education is doing our teens a disservice, not fully educating them on proper methods to prevent pregnancy and std's if they do engage in sexual activity.

It does go without saying, that's why it should be the first and most emphasized option taught to teenagers in sex education. I'm not saying abstinence only sex ed is the only or even main reason for the drop. What I'm saying is the argument that "you can't stop kids from having sex, so we should teach them safe sex first" simply isn't true - the trend is clearly reversible, so it's not unrealistic to think it can make an impact. And I'm not saying abstinence only will bring the number down to zero - that's clearly not possible but the idea that it should be abandoned or de-emphasized in favor of contraceptive teaching/training is dumb. It should be abstinence first, it's clearly the smartest option for young people, especially young poor people.

People who lack the resources, maturity and responsibility to deal with the consequences of certain behaviors should be discourage from engaging in those behaviors. The Brookings study should be taught in conjunction with sex education.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

And to preempt any claims about conservative ideology entering the study, Brookings is a self-described liberal-leaning think tank. Sorry if pointing that out offends you.

 

[Michchamp]

Republicans pay too much attention to teenagers having sex. it's... kinda creepy. like their focuses on rape and porn... creepy.

 

[Sbee]

It does go without saying, that's why it should be the first and most emphasized option taught to teenagers in sex education. I'm not saying abstinence only sex ed is the only or even main reason for the drop. What I'm saying is the argument that "you can't stop kids from having sex, so we should teach them safe sex first" simply isn't true - the trend is clearly reversible, so it's not unrealistic to think it can make an impact. And I'm not saying abstinence only will bring the number down to zero - that's clearly not possible but the idea that it should be abandoned or de-emphasized in favor of contraceptive teaching/training is dumb. It should be abstinence first, it's clearly the smartest option for young people, especially young poor people.

People who lack the resources, maturity and responsibility to deal with the consequences of certain behaviors should be discourage from engaging in those behaviors. The Brookings study should be taught in conjunction with sex education.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

And to preempt any claims about conservative ideology entering the study, Brookings is a self-described liberal-leaning think tank. Sorry if pointing that out offends you.

So actually you're saying exactly what I'm saying, abstinence should be taught along with contraception in a balanced approach to sexual education.

 

[Spartanmack]

So actually you're saying exactly what I'm saying, abstinence should be taught along with contraception in a balanced approach to sexual education.

I'm certainly not saying exactly what you're saying. I don't think you can make statements like this and claim to have a balanced approach, certainly not one that emphasizes abstinence first, to sex education.

Good luck with teenagers practicing abstinence!

Like most things the state puts their hands on, I think they are screwing this whole thing up and it's only getting worse. I would prefer that parents take responsibility for this and teach their kids at an appropriate age.