I thought Republicans...

[byco42]

would you Jesus freaks stop skewing this debate?

No. Because we are putting it in the right context. The rest of you are skewing it.

abortion does not equal murder. any sane, non-imaginary-man-in-the-sky can see the difference here.

Actually, you are walking around blind without a seeing-eye dog or a cane. You scrape, scald or extract a baby from the one place it can survive, it's the textbook definition of the term, as inconvenient as that is to you.

no one who defends a woman's right to make her own decision with regard to child bearing is advocating for abortions any more than you hypocrites will actually lift a finger in your own lives to help out any poor single mothers that do decide to keep their kids. and in fact, by voting to "reform" welfare, cut food stamps, etc you're actively fucking over those kids once they are born.

This is your out in the "I oppose it, but I can't get involved."

you guys for framing a woman's right to abortion as murder need to check your privilege and moral superiority.

I am interested in your term of the practice then. Charity?

and while I've read plenty of stories of jesus-freak-assholes harassing poor women in the US walking to/from abortion clinics, I've never read a single story of that happening to the daughter of some rich family heading down to Mexico for an abortion pre-Roe v Wade or any legislative attention being directed at that. I guess you don't want to pick a fight with people who WILL punch back... "baby killer" or not.

Another inconvenient truth is that minorities and the poor are targeted. That's where the abortion mills are set up. And they need their business to survive. I'm a life-freak. Life=good. Clear enough for you?

 

[Gulo Blue]

I also think MC should lose 1,000 golden-crusted DSF argument points for saying "check your privilege" non-sarcastically.

 

[TheVictors]

Timeless bumper sticker going back decades --

"Against Abortion? Don't have one"

 

[Gulo Blue]

Timeless bumper sticker going back decades --

"Against Abortion? Don't have one"

Against assault rifles? Don't buy one

Against polygamy? Don't marry multiple people

The persuasiveness of bumper sticker style statements is how we ended up with Trump getting a nomination using Twitter as his (probably) highest impact communication medium.

 

[byco42]

Timeless bumper sticker going back decades --

"Against Abortion? Don't have one"

"Against Slavery? Don't own them."

 

[byco42]

The real irony here is that abortion providers had to be born in the first place to provide them.

 

[Michchamp]

Against assault rifles? Don't buy one

Against polygamy? Don't marry multiple people

The persuasiveness of bumper sticker style statements is how we ended up with Trump getting a nomination using Twitter as his (probably) highest impact communication medium.

it's not the same... a woman getting an abortion is a personal decision. she cannot take her abortion and go gun down 16 people in a movie theatre in CO, or 20 school kids in CT or 50 people in an Orlando nightclub. She can't force (typically underage) girls into a polygamous marriage in rural Utah.

the abortion debate is not a debate... it's clearly people stomping on another's right.

and for fuck's sake, I think abortions are horrifying and barbaric. I can't think of my own kids and think otherwise, but I sure as hell would never consider imposing this on anyone else... let alone anyone poor and desperate.

 

[Gulo Blue]

it's not the same... a woman getting an abortion is a personal decision. she cannot take her abortion and go gun down 16 people in a movie theatre in CO, or 20 school kids in CT or 50 people in an Orlando nightclub. She can't force (typically underage) girls into a polygamous marriage in rural Utah.

the abortion debate is not a debate... it's clearly people stomping on another's right.

and for fuck's sake, I think abortions are horrifying and barbaric. I can't think of my own kids and think otherwise, but I sure as hell would never consider imposing this on anyone else... let alone anyone poor and desperate.

I don't think it's the same either, but I couldn't fit that on a bumper sticker.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't think it's the same either, but I couldn't fit that on a bumper sticker.

hurr! good point, gulo.

 

[Gulo Blue]

hurr! good point, gulo.

Well, I wasn't drawing an analogy to highlight the strength of bumper sticker arguments.

There's never going to be an analogy that both sides agree is a perfect analogy because they disagree on the existence/degree of harm to another person.

 

[byco42]

So, essentially, the pro-abortionists think that the baby in the womb is the property of the mother. Got it.

 

[Sbee]

it's not the same... a woman getting an abortion is a personal decision. she cannot take her abortion and go gun down 16 people in a movie theatre in CO, or 20 school kids in CT or 50 people in an Orlando nightclub. She can't force (typically underage) girls into a polygamous marriage in rural Utah.

the abortion debate is not a debate... it's clearly people stomping on another's right.

and for fuck's sake, I think abortions are horrifying and barbaric. I can't think of my own kids and think otherwise, but I sure as hell would never consider imposing this on anyone else... let alone anyone poor and desperate.

It doesn't work that way, we need to make sure that everyone adheres to your morality. We need to go back to the days of the DIY abortion for the poor and that quick "vacation" to europe for the wealthy.

 

[byco42]

It doesn't work that way, we need to make sure that everyone adheres to your morality. We need to go back to the days of the DIY abortion for the poor and that quick "vacation" to europe for the wealthy.

Or embracing life for what it really is. Apparently that's too much to expect from humanity.

 

[Michchamp]

So, essentially, the pro-abortionists think that the baby in the womb is the property of the mother. Got it.

I am okay banning third trimester abortions. i think at that point, once there's a brain there... you have a person. I suppose third trimester abortions could be performed if on the belief of the doctor a mother's health was at risk, and the fetus was not viable but... I don't like to think about it.

But yes, yes I do. unless someone else wants to grow the fetus and birth it, who am I to tell a woman what she has to do? I'm not a jerk like that.

I actually agree with you that abortion is wrong and cruel. It makes me sick. but I think it's one of those things that is going to happen until humanity improves itself, like drug and alcohol addiction, and therefore we should try to minimize the harm to society, particularly the most vulnerable elements of it.

it's not like women won't stop trying to abort their babies using a variety of unsafe, dangerous means, some of which might be even more traumatic to the fetus just because you finally elected enough Santorum clones to overturn Roe v Wade...

and beyond all this... jeez... if you oppose abortions so much at least don't also oppose sex education for teens and encourage birth control, Mr. I Was a Perfect Catholic And Everyone Should be Like Me.

 

[Michchamp]

"pro-abortionists"... nice. I guess I started it by telling the Jesus Freaks they were Jesus Freaks.

 

[tomdalton22]

I am okay banning third trimester abortions. i think at that point, once there's a brain there... you have a person. I suppose third trimester abortions could be performed if on the belief of the doctor a mother's health was at risk, and the fetus was not viable but... I don't like to think about it.

since babies have been born and survived prior to 27 weeks tells me that you have a person in the 2nd trimester

 

[byco42]

I am okay banning third trimester abortions. i think at that point, once there's a brain there... you have a person. I suppose third trimester abortions could be performed if on the belief of the doctor a mother's health was at risk, and the fetus was not viable but... I don't like to think about it.

But yes, yes I do. unless someone else wants to grow the fetus and birth it, who am I to tell a woman what she has to do? I'm not a jerk like that.

If the baby in the womb is the property of the mother, why should there be limitations to her right to an abortion?

I actually agree with you that abortion is wrong and cruel. It makes me sick. but I think it's one of those things that is going to happen until humanity improves itself, like drug and alcohol addiction, and therefore we should try to minimize the harm to society, particularly the most vulnerable elements of it.

I could quote George Bernard Shaw here, but it's not needed.

it's not like women won't stop trying to abort their babies using a variety of unsafe, dangerous means, some of which might be even more traumatic to the fetus.

The viable option is have the child and put it up for adoption.

and beyond all this... jeez... if you oppose abortions so much at least don't also oppose sex education for teens and encourage birth control, Mr. I Was a Perfect Catholic And Everyone Should be Like Me.

I was/am far from perfect. And sex-ed for teens should center on abstinence and chastity (in the true sense of the term). Encouraging birth-control methods other than that leads to unwanted pregnancies and abortions.

 

[Gulo Blue]

and beyond all this... jeez... if you oppose abortions so much at least don't also oppose sex education for teens and encourage birth control

I'm with you on this. You can teach it alongside the benefits of abstinence (which I believe there are for most young people) without endorsing or demonizing. If you have faith in your own religious beliefs or philosophy, you should not be afraid to teach all the facts.

 

[Michchamp]

:hmm:

 

[Gulo Blue]

:hmm:

Do I need to try to reword something?