I thought Republicans...

[Spartanmack]

I think you're confusing enabling and educating.

I don't think he's confusing the two at all. And if you don't think sex-ed itself, as it's taught is enabling, schools are still doing it. Contraceptives including the Plan B pill are handed out in public schools. That's enabling.

 

[byco42]

I think you're confusing enabling and educating.

I see that S-Mack already covered this one.

 

[Spartanmack]

Republicans pay too much attention to teenagers having sex. it's... kinda creepy. like their focuses on rape and porn... creepy.

real high level discourse from you here. can't win a merit based argument, accuse the opponent of being a pervert. VICTORY!!

 

[Sbee]

I don't think he's confusing the two at all. And if you don't think sex-ed itself, as it's taught is enabling, schools are still doing it. Contraceptives including the Plan B pill are handed out in public schools. That's enabling.

So you're against balanced sex education? it just seemed like you were for it as opposed to abstinence only education. What side are you on? whatever side I'm not?

as for contraceptives being handed out in school, something tells me that kids don't plan on playing video games after school, but since they can get a condom they decide to go home and have sex.

 

[Spartanmack]

So you're against balanced sex education? it just seemed like you were for it as opposed to abstinence only education. What side are you on? whatever side I'm not?

as for contraceptives being handed out in school, something tells me that kids don't plan on playing video games after school, but since they can get a condom they decide to go home and have sex.

I'm for parents taking responsibility for teaching their kids about sex and how it can affect their lives. As far as what they teach in school that goes beyond biology, I'm for abstinence first sex-education, it doesn't sound like you are when you say the things you say.

If you think handing out condoms and abortifacients isn't enabling, you don't know what the word means.

 

[byco42]

My message to my kids was "don't" not "here's a condom, go have fun before you are emotionally ready for sex and for dealing with the long-term consequences." I see no reason why the schools could not approach it that way.

 

[Sbee]

My message to my kids was "don't" not "here's a condom, go have fun before you are emotionally ready for sex and for dealing with the long-term consequences." I see no reason why the schools could not approach it that way.

You can address your kids in any way you see fit. I doubt parents give their kids condoms and tell them to go have sex, they do it to protect their children in case they do.

The reasons schools don't approach it that way is that it's ineffective and you're doing a disservice to the kids by not teaching them about birth control and STD prevention.

 

[Sbee]

I'm for parents taking responsibility for teaching their kids about sex and how it can affect their lives. As far as what they teach in school that goes beyond biology, I'm for abstinence first sex-education, it doesn't sound like you are when you say the things you say.

If you think handing out condoms and abortifacients isn't enabling, you don't know what the word means.

Parents should talk to their kids about sex and the associated dangers, agree 100%. I agree that abstinence should be a part of comprehensive sexual education, if you want to call it abstinence first, that's fine, I'm for it. They should also be taught that teen pregnancy is a fast track to poverty and also about the dangers of STD 's. They should learn about all prevention methods including abstinence, condoms, birth control, etc.

Now go ahead and pick something in that post so we can continue to argue about it

 

[sggatecl]

Reading this thread I feel like someone from the Opal Ring Crusade slipped in here. Funny stuff.

 

[Thumb]

You realize the best chance you have of absolutely making a teenager do something is to tell them not to first right?

Teaching abstinence only and not any contraceptive methods would likely not lead to any less teen sex, but certainly a higher rate of pregnancies, and in turn, abortions.

I really can't figure out if the resistance to schools teaching safe sex in sex ed. is based on honest belief or your catholic ideals that birth control is a sin.

 

[Spartanmack]

Parents should talk to their kids about sex and the associated dangers, agree 100%. I agree that abstinence should be a part of comprehensive sexual education, if you want to call it abstinence first, that's fine, I'm for it. They should also be taught that teen pregnancy is a fast track to poverty and also about the dangers of STD 's. They should learn about all prevention methods including abstinence, condoms, birth control, etc.

Now go ahead and pick something in that post so we can continue to argue about it

you're accusing me of manufacturing arguments? that's rich.

 

[Spartanmack]

You realize the best chance you have of absolutely making a teenager do something is to tell them not to first right?

Teaching abstinence only and not any contraceptive methods would likely not lead to any less teen sex, but certainly a higher rate of pregnancies, and in turn, abortions.

I really can't figure out if the resistance to schools teaching safe sex in sex ed. is based on honest belief or your catholic ideals that birth control is a sin.

so teens won't listen to you about abstinence but they will listen to you when you tell them to be safe? And if the former is true, explain to me why the rate of teen sex has been dropping over the last 20 years?

 

[Sbee]

you're accusing me of manufacturing arguments? that's rich.

that's what you're doing. We are saying essentially the same thing when it comes to sexual education, but you're continuing this argument, you can't let something go, you'll try to find some minute detail to keep the argument going.

 

[sggatecl]

so teens won't listen to you about abstinence but they will listen to you when you tell them to be safe? And if the former is true, explain to me why the rate of teen sex has been dropping over the last 20 years?

I'd argue that those rates aren't because of abstinence only education but general education overall. Not only has teen sex been dropping but the ones who are having sex are using protection of some sort at a far higher rate. Drug use, prescription drug abuse, smoking, and drinking are all down as well. People love to shit talk 'kids nowadays' but they might not be as bad as they're portrayed.

 

[Spartanmack]

that's what you're doing. We are saying essentially the same thing when it comes to sexual education, but you're continuing this argument, you can't let something go, you'll try to find some minute detail to keep the argument going.

I'm pointing out inconsistencies in what you say. You say you're for a balanced approach but also say teaching abstinence doesn't work. That's not manufacturing an argument. it's not clear exactly what you mean by balanced but based on your comments, we clearly have a different emphasis on the abstinence bit, so no, we're not saying the same thing. And i'm not nit picking or finding a reason to disagree with you when you say schools aren't enabling teenage sex - they're handing out contraceptives and morning after pills. That's enabling. If instead they were handing out promise rings, you'd probably say they were promoting teen pregnancy and STDs. And I'm not advocating for promise rings - i'm just using it as an example of your logic.

 

[Sbee]

I'm pointing out inconsistencies in what you say. You say you're for a balanced approach but also say teaching abstinence doesn't work. That's not manufacturing an argument. it's not clear exactly what you mean by balanced but based on your comments, we clearly have a different emphasis on the abstinence bit, so no, we're not saying the same thing. And i'm not nit picking or finding a reason to disagree with you when you say schools aren't enabling teenage sex - they're handing out contraceptives and morning after pills. That's enabling. If instead they were handing out promise rings, you'd probably say they were promoting teen pregnancy and STDs. And I'm not advocating for promise rings - i'm just using it as an example of your logic.

Teaching abstinence only doesn't work. By balanced I mean telling people that the surest way to avoid pregnancy and STD's but also educate them on contraception. I guess you put more emphasis on abstinence so let's keep splitting hairs.

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/pu.../409-the-truth-about-abstinence-only-programs

Numerous state evaluations of federally-funded programs have yielded similar conclusions. A 2004 review by Advocates for Youth of 11 state-based evaluations found that abstinence-only programs showed little evidence of sustained (long-term) impact on attitudes and intentions. Worse, they showed some negative impacts on youth's willingness to use contraception, including condoms, to prevent negative sexual health outcomes related to sexual intercourse. In only one state did any program demonstrate short-term success in youth?s delaying the initiation of sex. None of the programs showed evidence of long-term success in delaying sexual initiation among youth enrolled in the programs. None of the programs showed any evidence of success in reducing other sexual risk-taking behaviors among participants.[7] More specifically, a 2003 Pennsylvania evaluation found that the state-sponsored programs were largely ineffective in delaying sexual onset or promoting skills and attitudes consistent with sexual abstinence.[7] Arizona and Kansas had similar findings of no change in behaviors.[7] A 2004 evaluation from Texas found no significant changes in the percentage of students who pledged not to have sex until marriage. As in two other studies, the Texas analysis revealed that the percentage of students who reported having engaged in sexual intercourse increased for nearly all age

 

[Spartanmack]

great recapof those studies. now show me where I advocated for abstinence only education. and I'm the one splitting hairs and making up arguments?

 

[Sbee]

great recapof those studies. now show me where I advocated for abstinence only education. and I'm the one splitting hairs and making up arguments?

I posted a link showing that teaching abstinence as part of a balanced sex ed curriculum is the most effective, which is why I posted the link because studies support that.

We essentially agree on this, can you let it go? are you capable?

 

[Spartanmack]

I posted a link showing that teaching abstinence as part of a balanced sex ed curriculum is the most effective, which is why I posted the link because studies support that.

We essentially agree on this, can you let it go? are you capable?

I was highlighting a significant distinction in our positions, you're posting evidence to disprove something that isn't my position and you're saying I can't let it go. You're a piece of work.

 

[Sbee]

I was highlighting a significant distinction in our positions, you're posting evidence to disprove something that isn't my position and you're saying I can't let it go. You're a piece of work.

Highlighting a distinction in similar positions is not letting it go.

I am letting it go.