Imagine how good wed be without Leyland

[Thumb]

I don't get people who insist we should have a 10-15 game lead over our closest rival when we destroyed them in head-to-head series.

Is it Jim Leylands fault the Indians are not losing more often?

Or am I just an idiot for thinking that the Tigers being 90-50 (15 game lead numbers) on September 4th is bombastically unrealistic?

We have the second best record in the AL and people are bitching the manager is the reason we have not lost 9 fewer games, and don't have a 5 game lead on every team in the major leagues, which we would if we had a 15 game lead on our division as of tonight.

Seriously, Fuck you Jim Leyland for the Indians not being a shittier team.

 

[byco42]

I'd like to offer that this discourse is healthy and hopefully prescient. In 2010, the Giants fans I know were calling for Bochy's head, too. Personally, I think Leyland's played out, and the Tigers are winning anyway. And it's not Smokes's fault that his bullpen resembles that of your average slaughterhouse. Disgraceful that we are relying on the likes of Alber-quirky and Bondo-man to keep teams under 15 runs.

 

[sggatecl]

I don't get people who insist we should have a 10-15 game lead over our closest rival when we destroyed them in head-to-head series.

Is it Jim Leylands fault the Indians are not losing more often?

Or am I just an idiot for thinking that the Tigers being 90-50 (15 game lead numbers) on September 4th is bombastically unrealistic?

We have the second best record in the AL and people are bitching the manager is the reason we have not lost 9 fewer games, and don't have a 5 game lead on every team in the major leagues, which we would if we had a 15 game lead on our division as of tonight.

Seriously, Fuck you Jim Leyland for the Indians not being a shittier team.

I would think this would put things into perspective for people but I know it won't.

 

[lonesometiger]

Really? Do we have a lights out bullpen? Hes as good as the arms he has to call on. The bullpen is good if the starters go 6 or 7.

I will aggree with one thing here. Our starters do need to get into the 6th and 7th innings for this BP to be able to close and win games. And really RP did not get any outs in the 6th. So that would be a fail on his part!

But Rick should have been pull after the leadoff walk! And then to let him pitch with the bases loaded after the issue of the intentitional walk was a bigger mistake. After that anyone/nobody should not have been supprize to see the HOMERUN. As leyland did not give the relief any room. Throw strikes or walk in a run gives the batter too much. IMO Leyland set up that Grand Slam just as much as the PITCHING. Heck with a run in and no outs bases loaded there not a batter on the planet, that's not swinging for the fences.

 

[Sbee]

Glad its still a 6.5 game lead... Should be 10-15 but heck at least smokey likes the RBI stat!!!! I really could care less unless he loses the WS again.. 1-8 in the biggest stage suggests being out managed. Or not having your team ready.. But who knows maybe they blow this 6.5 game lead that should be over 10 and we can fire him... Or better yet he wins the WS, and then he can get a free pass and pitch Bo Derek whenever he wants.....
Either way its a win win for me...

1-8 is the same as 6-8, doesnt matter. Hes also 5-3 in playoff series with the tigers. Those are all series against good teams. Lets not just cherrypick stats to attempt to prove a point. Again, I give 97 percent of credit to the players for the wins, I blame leyland 3% for the losses

 

[sggatecl]

BTW, whose the broad on sggatcl's avatar?

Ronda Rousey.

 

[Sbee]

Me thinks Jimbo is just mailing it in for the $ anymore. But really, how many tactical decisions does a bb manager for a team like Det. make per game? You manage a team like DD built, you pretty much kick back and wonder where you can find an all u can eat joint at 1am in KC for your pal Geno.

The tactical decisions are all pretty easy. Stats and run expectency charts male it easy.

 

[tigerfantroy]

That fucking Leyland cost another game tonight

 

[tinselwolverine]

Ronda Rousey.

That Belle Tire babe is pretty hot too.

In one of them commercials she wears a light beige top, and every time I see it I think for a nanosecond she has her really nice tits right out there.

 

[spockmaster]

Leyland might absolutely suck at in-game decisions, but at least he's not as bad as Ned Yost:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/09/this-clinches-it-ned-yost-has-no-idea-what-hes-doing/

 

[Thundercats]

Leyland might absolutely suck at in-game decisions, but at least he's not as bad as Ned Yost:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/09/this-clinches-it-ned-yost-has-no-idea-what-hes-doing/

I'd say Leyland has made as bad if not worse decisions than Yost made in that game. I remember countless times where he would Pinch hit Don Kelly. I'm sorry, but you don't pinch hit Don Kelly for fucking anyone. Also a few times where he didn't pinch hit Avila for Pena against a Righty in the 9th inning(one of them was Veras, who Avila had previously taken deep for a game winner). If I went back and watched every game, I could probably find 10+ losses that a different manager/decision could have won.

 

[Rebbiv]

I'd say Leyland has made as bad if not worse decisions than Yost made in that game. I remember countless times where he would Pinch hit Don Kelly. I'm sorry, but you don't pinch hit Don Kelly for fucking anyone. Also a few times where he didn't pinch hit Avila for Pena against a Righty in the 9th inning(one of them was Veras, who Avila had previously taken deep for a game winner). If I went back and watched every game, I could probably find 10+ losses that a different manager/decision could have won.

Do it.

 

[tomdalton22]

I'd say Leyland has made as bad if not worse decisions than Yost made in that game. I remember countless times where he would Pinch hit Don Kelly. I'm sorry, but you don't pinch hit Don Kelly for fucking anyone. Also a few times where he didn't pinch hit Avila for Pena against a Righty in the 9th inning(one of them was Veras, who Avila had previously taken deep for a game winner). If I went back and watched every game, I could probably find 10+ losses that a different manager/decision could have won.

When you go find those games there won't be a single one that you can say with 100% certainty that the result of the game (W/L) would have been any different.

 

[Thumb]

Do it.

Seconded.

Money where your mouth is.

 

[spockmaster]

Thirded.

 

[spockmaster]

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/40165/yost-kills-royals-with-awful-ninth-inning

 

[gotime909]

I really hate this debate, but I'd like to chime in.

It's awfully hard to peg losses directly on Leyland(or any manager for that matter). But saying he's responsible for 10 losses isn't out of the question. His bullpen decisions alone could have led to a good chunk of that total. But again, hard to pin them on Leyland because you never know how some of those games would have turned out with different decisions.

 

[Thumb]

I really hate this debate, but I'd like to chime in.

It's awfully hard to peg losses directly on Leyland(or any manager for that matter). But saying he's responsible for 10 losses isn't out of the question. His bullpen decisions alone could have led to a good chunk of that total. But again, hard to pin them on Leyland because you never know how some of those games would have turned out with different decisions.

I'd like to point out that as much as we complain about his handling of the bullpen...there are times when guys HAVE to pitch. Either because they need work, or because the others are overtaxed. And as much as we might hate his decisions, whoever gets tier number called is expected to do the job.

When Al Al was going good he was everyone's favorite, a little while later he was giving up HR's and Walks left and right and everyone blamed Leyland....how about blaming Al Al?

Also it raises the old football saying, a game is not lost on 1 play, no matter how stupid. Same with baseball, you have 9 innings to win a ballgame, if 1 decision blows that chance then the rest of the game wasn't very good to begin with.

Players win or lose games based on their performances, you don't lose really games based on a questionable strategic decision or bullpen move.

It's just easier to focus blame on Leyland than to blame everyone. His personality doesn't help that much either.

 

[Rebbiv]

I'd say Leyland has made as bad if not worse decisions than Yost made in that game. I remember countless times where he would Pinch hit Don Kelly. I'm sorry, but you don't pinch hit Don Kelly for fucking anyone. Also a few times where he didn't pinch hit Avila for Pena against a Righty in the 9th inning(one of them was Veras, who Avila had previously taken deep for a game winner). If I went back and watched every game, I could probably find 10+ losses that a different manager/decision could have won.

So, Leyland get's 100% of his decisions wrong. Nothing he does is ever right.

If you believe managers lose games, then by reason, they can win games also. "Even blind squirrels find a nut every once in a while." Meaning, just by luck, Leyland would bound to win a few games by his decisions. Maybe even as many as 10+.

Most will say Leyland is an average manager, myself included. Where he excels is his report with his players. If he loses this, then he is out. But as long as the players continue to give their all for him, I have no problem, even if I question some of his moves.

 

[gotime909]

So, Leyland get's 100% of his decisions wrong. Nothing he does is ever right.

If you believe managers lose games, then by reason, they can win games also. "Even blind squirrels find a nut every once in a while." Meaning, just by luck, Leyland would bound to win a few games by his decisions. Maybe even as many as 10+.

Most will say Leyland is an average manager, myself included. Where he excels is his report with his players. If he loses this, then he is out. But as long as the players continue to give their all for him, I have no problem, even if I question some of his moves.

This is generally where I stand on Leyland also.