Iran deal

[Gulo Blue]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/14/us-iran-nuclear-idUSKCN0PM0CE20150714

Sanctions lifting for nuclear program curbs

 

[tinselwolverine]

Quite a bit of discussion on all of this this morning...

 

[byco42]

I think this is an accurate assessment of the situation

 

[Gulo Blue]

As a part of asking other nations to not go nuclear, we should continuously work to reduce the arms of the states that have them. To zero. Everyone.

I'm also kind of amazed that there's been no micro/nano-tech enrichment process developed in the last 25 years. Glad, but surprised.

 

[byco42]

As a part of asking other nations to not go nuclear, we should continuously work to reduce the arms of the states that have them. To zero. Everyone.

I'm also kind of amazed that there's been no micro/nano-tech enrichment process developed in the last 25 years. Glad, but surprised.

That box cannot be shut, unfortunately. And that would not limit the Islamic-terrorist organizations from gaining and leveraging the technology some day. I can speculate what governments might provide it to them...or from where they can steal them.

 

[Gulo Blue]

That box cannot be shut, unfortunately.

We should do it anyway and always work towards better detection and greater reduction pacts. Trust and verify.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I think this is an accurate assessment of the situation

Like Max Fisher of the Post points out here, there are a whole lot of elements that could cause this all to fall apart...

 

[Michchamp]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/14/us-iran-nuclear-idUSKCN0PM0CE20150714

Sanctions lifting for nuclear program curbs

using diplomacy to resolve international disputes is apparently a novel concept now in America. Turns out not every other world leader is Adolf Hitler, and the Munich Agreement may not be the analogue to every recent international agreement

 

[Michchamp]

Like Max Fisher of the Post points out here, there are a whole lot of elements that could cause this all to fall apart...

among some in DC and its surrounding environs, the only conclusions you can draw from failure are: 1) diplomacy doesnt work, and 2) Iran is at fault no matter what actually happens

 

[byco42]

among some in DC and its surrounding environs, the only conclusions you can draw from failure are: 1) diplomacy doesnt work, and 2) Iran is at fault no matter what actually happens

Iran is kind of the defendant in this trial of peace.

 

[tinselwolverine]

among some in DC and its surrounding environs, the only conclusions you can draw from failure are: 1) diplomacy doesnt work, and 2) Iran is at fault no matter what actually happens

I supposed among some.

Fisher's primary point seems that the coalition of Russia, China, all the Europeans and the United States and Iran themselves could fairly easily fall apart; agreements could be not adhered to, etc.

Additionally, not only Israel, which is openly critical of the agreement may not be the only middle eastern state that feels threatened by an Iran with expanded nuclear capability; and that could throw a wrench into things also.

 

[Michchamp]

Iran is kind of the defendant in this trial of peace.

So you don't go back before 1978 in examining this issue*... surprisingly myopic of you.

*and even then, you have to ignore operation praying mantis, US actions in the middle east, and all the US senators and other officials who've openly called for us to obliterate Iran over the last couple decades.

 

[Michchamp]

I supposed among some.

Fisher's primary point seems that the coalition of Russia, China, all the Europeans and the United States and Iran themselves could fairly easily fall apart; agreements could be not adhered to, etc.

Additionally, not only Israel, which is openly critical of the agreement may not be the only middle eastern state that feels threatened by an Iran with expanded nuclear capability; and that could throw a wrench into things also.

Israel really has no basis to be critical of any other nation's nuclear aspirations given their current status

 

[Michchamp]

Iran more or less sucks, but I think it's important to put who-is-really-a-threat-to-who in context when discussing this highly politicized matter

 

[tinselwolverine]

Israel really has no basis to be critical of any other nation's nuclear aspirations given their current status

Of course.

Is that any different, though, than India, Pakistan, China, Russia, the United Kingdom, us (the United States) and every nation who has nuclear weapons and doesn't want any new nation to join that club?

Israel - along with some of Iran's Arab nation rivals in the region - may have a greater legitimate fear of an existential threat than nations with nuclear weaponry in other parts of the world.

 

[Michchamp]

well, Israel is unique in having nukes but not acknowledging the fact

 

[byco42]

So you don't go back before 1978 in examining this issue*... surprisingly myopic of you.

*and even then, you have to ignore operation praying mantis, US actions in the middle east, and all the US senators and other officials who've openly called for us to obliterate Iran over the last couple decades.

Toe-to-toe nuculur combat with the I-rain-ians is a lot different than mining a gulf and sinking a few ships. A lot more than hair is going to get mussed if it happens.

 

[Thumb]

Of course.

Is that any different, though, than India, Pakistan, China, Russia, the United Kingdom, us (the United States) and every nation who has nuclear weapons and doesn't want any new nation to join that club?

Israel - along with some of Iran's Arab nation rivals in the region - may have a greater legitimate fear of an existential threat than nations with nuclear weaponry in other parts of the world.

See here's the thing, you mentioned India and Pakistan; 2 countries that hate each other and have been warring forever. Neither country uses nuclear strikes for the same reason the US never did with the USSR, and the same reason that even if Iran had nukes would not with Israel or Saudi Arabia, M.A.D.

So I don't believe the fear is any greater then any other nation that possesses nukes, I think this is just Israel being the squeaky wheel again. And lets not forget, this actually lowers the chance that Iran can build a bomb, though the smoke and mirrors people would try to convince everyone otherwise.

 

[tinselwolverine]

So I don't believe the fear is any greater then any other nation that possesses nukes, I think this is just Israel being the squeaky wheel again. And lets not forget, this actually lowers the chance that Iran can build a bomb, though the smoke and mirrors people would try to convince everyone otherwise.

Could be.

One thing for sure-every nation with nuclear weaponry capabilities, despite whatever differences any of them might have with another one, is united in the desire to not let any new nation into the club.

Maybe not in agreement on how to go about it; but definitely don't want it to happen.

 

[Spartanmack]

There are a few material differences - India and Pakistan clash over control of the Kashmir region, neither is ruled by radical religious fundamentalists and neither is calling for the outright, complete annihilation of the other.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/Iranian-View-of-Israel/387085/

of course it's crazy to think religious fanatics who openly deny Israel's right to exist and call for it's complete and total destruction would ever use nuclear weapons against them - because other warring nations with nuclear capabilities haven't done it for almost 70 years...

this agreement probably has the same impact on Iran's chances of getting the bomb as Kim Jong-il's promises to dismantle his nuclear program had on North Korea's chances of getting a bomb...