is this the most penalized Michigan team ever?

[hungry]

and, if so, why?

Are they really that bad at following the rules?

btw i watch a lot of big 10 football. i see refs not call things a lot against other teams.

 

[dubbsco]

I've always felt this way about any organized football. Every season, there's always teams that will be heavily penalized, and then the following season, they move up the rankings.

If every player listened to the BS coach speak that "we need to play disciplined football and clean up penalties," refs would be out of a job.

Now, if it becomes a trend every year that this team is racking up 100 yards in pens then yeah, we can worry.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Well, 20 or 25 years ago or so the basketball team was pretty heavily penalized.

I would put them up at the top.

 

[thewolverines24]

I've always felt this way about any organized football. Every season, there's always teams that will be heavily penalized, and then the following season, they move up the rankings.

If every player listened to the BS coach speak that "we need to play disciplined football and clean up penalties," refs would be out of a job.

Now, if it becomes a trend every year that this team is racking up 100 yards in pens then yeah, we can worry.

Every Big 10 football official should be out of a job. They are beyond incompetent.

 

[Michchamp]

friend texted me this:

Michigan is 14th in the big ten in penalties called against us. And 13th in the big ten in penalties called against our opponent (in games against us)

Last year, we were 13th and 14 the respectively in those same categories...​

Big Ten refereeing is sketchy as hell, as is the conference adminstration itself (from Delaney on down). in Don Canham's book, he said both he and Bo had a really negative opinion about Delaney. He does seem more concerned with short term revenues that anything else.

It's a while ago now, but anyone remember that '07 Illinois-Ohio St game? UI pulled off a shocking upset, amidst some questionable calls, and it was revealed that one of the refs had huge gambling debts, and a history of wife-beating and child abuse. when the media questioned whether the Big Ten did background checks, I remember the answer was less-than-forthcoming.

the thing is you can't just do a background check once... they need to be conducted annually, or close to that. People can get old records expunged, or hide things, and you need to know if they get caught doing them again.

The Big Ten's office is in Rosemont, IL, AKA "Mob Run Convention Center Land."

 

[Michchamp]

Harbaugh seems to have dialed down his criticism of the refs this year. Maybe next year the Big Ten powers that be will determine we've paid enough for daring to call them out, and we can go back to average?

 

[thewolverines24]

It's amazing how no opponent has to hold against our d-line. Amazing.

 

[TheVictors]

Personally I think football in general is being ruined by officials - CFB & NFL.

Rather than call penalties when they occur and maintaining flow of the game (eg. Holding could be called on every play but isn't), refs are now impeding the natural flow and momentum, looking for penalties when they might not exist, enforcing the rules incredibly inconsistently and otherwise, playing far too large a role in the play-by-play of the games.

I understand the need for player safety and that rules change and sometimes the league/conference wants emphasis over certain areas, but it's gotten to where a play WITHOUT a yellow flag is the exception, not the rule, and it really sucks.

 

[thewolverines24]

Personally I think football in general is being ruined by officials - CFB & NFL.

Rather than call penalties when they occur and maintaining flow of the game (eg. Holding could be called on every play but isn't), refs are now impeding the natural flow and momentum, looking for penalties when they might not exist, enforcing the rules incredibly inconsistently and otherwise, playing far too large a role in the play-by-play of the games.

I understand the need for player safety and that rules change and sometimes the league/conference wants emphasis over certain areas, but it's gotten to where a play WITHOUT a yellow flag is the exception, not the rule, and it really sucks.

I'm in the same boat as you. I have never liked officials, but now I loathe them. They are far too involved in the game. Replay is getting awful as well. The flow of games has been destroyed.

 

[TheVictors]

I'm in the same boat as you. I have never liked officials, but now I loathe them. They are far too involved in the game. Replay is getting awful as well. The flow of games has been destroyed.

Someone please explain to me how you can have different outcomes for one situation.

Example - Penalty called on a DB for "unnecessary roughness" with the added indictment of "targeting."

Following a lengthy interruption of the game for replay, it is determined that in fact the hit was not "targeting." The DB is not ejected from the game ...there is no enforcement of the 15yd "unnecessary roughness" call, the WR is in a daze on the bench and now it's 3rd and 2...

or, it is "targeting" so the DB is ejected, there is a 15yd penalty to boot and it's 1st down ...

or, it is not "targeting" so the DB is not ejected, but there IS a 15yd penalty for the old school, regular "unnecessary roughness"


I am asking because I have seen all these potential outcomes happen.

 

[thewolverines24]

Someone please explain to me how you can have different outcomes for one situation.

Example - Penalty called on a DB for "unnecessary roughness" with the added indictment of "targeting."

Following a lengthy interruption of the game for replay, it is determined that in fact the hit was not "targeting." The DB is not ejected from the game ...there is no enforcement of the 15yd "unnecessary roughness" call, the WR is in a daze on the bench and now it's 3rd and 2...

or, it is "targeting" so the DB is ejected, there is a 15yd penalty to boot and it's 1st down ...

or, it is not "targeting" so the DB is not ejected, but there IS a 15yd penalty for the old school, regular "unnecessary roughness"


I am asking because I have seen all these potential outcomes happen.

This has all happened because refs call any helmet to helmet contact targeting. It doesn't matter if the WR or QB ducks into it or if a punter does a fucking somersault causing helmet to helmet contact.

All these old fucks who make the rules forgot about game speed. I understand the concern for player safety, but far too many unnecessary roughness penalties are just incidental contact.

Some of the calls are so bad it would be about the same as sending a hockey player to the penalty box for hitting a guy with a slapshot.

 

[TheVictors]

For me, the entertainment value ...the departure from reality and few hours of enjoyment just watching football on weekends - has eroded tremendously in the past couple years. On virtually every single play, I tense up waiting for the almost inevitable "flag on the play" and explanation that while there was some "illegal contact" nowhere near the play, that the 32yd run and big 1st down is now 1st and 20.

 

[thewolverines24]

For me, the entertainment value ...the departure from reality and few hours of enjoyment just watching football on weekends - has eroded tremendously in the past couple years. On virtually every single play, I tense up waiting for the almost inevitable "flag on the play" and explanation that while there was some "illegal contact" nowhere near the play, that the 32yd run and big 1st down is now 1st and 20.

Or ineligible man downfield when JBB is just standing a few yards downfield doing nothing. A play where he actually didn't block anyone, he just floated around. Had literally no effect on the play whatsoever.

But then one of our WRs can get tackled on a route and the ref will eat the flag.

 

[hungry]

friend texted me this:

Michigan is 14th in the big ten in penalties called against us. And 13th in the big ten in penalties called against our opponent (in games against us)

Last year, we were 13th and 14 the respectively in those same categories...​

Big Ten refereeing is sketchy as hell, as is the conference adminstration itself (from Delaney on down). in Don Canham's book, he said both he and Bo had a really negative opinion about Delaney. He does seem more concerned with short term revenues that anything else.

It's a while ago now, but anyone remember that '07 Illinois-Ohio St game? UI pulled off a shocking upset, amidst some questionable calls, and it was revealed that one of the refs had huge gambling debts, and a history of wife-beating and child abuse. when the media questioned whether the Big Ten did background checks, I remember the answer was less-than-forthcoming.

the thing is you can't just do a background check once... they need to be conducted annually, or close to that. People can get old records expunged, or hide things, and you need to know if they get caught doing them again.

The Big Ten's office is in Rosemont, IL, AKA "Mob Run Convention Center Land."

Those numbers are crazy!

I know most non-Michigan fans would say that we're just being homers, but how do you explain those 2 numbers for 2 straight years? Is the team really so undisciplined in comparison to their big ten opponents? Do our opponents really play so disciplined against MIchigan? Is there some referee conspiracy going on here? Those numbers don't just happen by accident 2 years in a row.

 

[thewolverines24]

The fact that Minnesota was called for holding zero times is a load of shit. They start RS Freshmen at RG and RT. You think those two went the whole game against our d-line without a few blatant holds? Give me a fucking break.

 

[lostleader]

Someone please explain to me how you can have different outcomes for one situation.

Example - Penalty called on a DB for "unnecessary roughness" with the added indictment of "targeting."

Following a lengthy interruption of the game for replay, it is determined that in fact the hit was not "targeting." The DB is not ejected from the game ...there is no enforcement of the 15yd "unnecessary roughness" call, the WR is in a daze on the bench and now it's 3rd and 2...

or, it is "targeting" so the DB is ejected, there is a 15yd penalty to boot and it's 1st down ...

or, it is not "targeting" so the DB is not ejected, but there IS a 15yd penalty for the old school, regular "unnecessary roughness"


I am asking because I have seen all these potential outcomes happen.

I would have to read the actual rule book to be certain and I am not doing that. But I thought the unnecessary roughness call could not be overturned, once it was called it stood regardless of targeting or not.

Now targeting is called anytime a helmet to helmet contact is made, and the helmet to helmet call is considered unnecessary roughness. So they review the play to see if the player "launched" himself into the other player or if it was a egregious hit that was intentional. Not sure how you can determine that with 100% certainty every time, but thats the rule.

Maybe I have that mixed up a little cause it seems every conference, league, and sometimes team have different rules they follow.

 

[Michlady]

Targeting is automatically ra viewed so officials play it safe and call it....

 

[TheVictors]

I have seen all those outcomes following a 'targeting' call. The definition of 'targeting' is unclear, enforcement all over the place and calls inconsistent. Stopping the game to review every touchdown, even when clearly a score is Vegas' interfering with the pure joy of the sport and also ruining the pace of play. It's getting stupid and CFB needs only look at the mess the NFL has gotten into, due to parity, a bad product, bad officiating and over-exposure as foreshadowing.