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Jackson and Avila lose out on Gold Gloves

kalinecountry

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id call BS for ajax, but then i remember his horrid postseason defense.
 
Spockmaster said:
id call BS for ajax, but then i remember his horrid postseason defense.

Jackson finished first in Defensive Runs Saved, RZR, and Plus/Minus. He also finished second in UZR and fourth in Total Zone Runs.

http://fieldingbible.com/the-winners.asp
Jackson won the Fielding Bible Award.

It's just that these GG Awards have become such a joke with offense into the equation or the team the player is on.
 
[color=#006400 said:
KalineCountry[/color]]
Spockmaster said:
id call BS for ajax, but then i remember his horrid postseason defense.

Jackson finished first in Defensive Runs Saved, RZR, and Plus/Minus. He also finished second in UZR and fourth in Total Zone Runs.

http://fieldingbible.com/the-winners.asp
Jackson won the Fielding Bible Award.

It's just that these GG Awards have become such a joke with offense into the equation or the team the player is on.

Exactly, awards have become a popularity contest. Such a shame.
 
Injection here. Defensive metrics vary greatly from year to year and have many components that are not as a result of defensive skill sets.

Examples

Granderson 2007

16 DRS .924 RZR 11 rPM 14.6 UZR/150

Granderson 2008

-7 DRS .924 RZR -6 rPM -11.9 UZR/150


I. Suzuki 2004

30 DRS .708 RZR 19 rPM 19.2 UZR/150

I. Suzuki 2005

7 DRS .726 RZR 6 rPM 4.1 UZR/150


I would also point out, as a rule, defensive metrics favor CFers over LFers or RFers. Large outfields with deep CF, like Comerica, also skew these stats. HR saving catches are part of these stats. How does a LFer in Fenway get a HR saving catch over the Green Monster? How does Granderson leap a 20 foot CF fence in Yankee Stadium, yet Swisher gets a 3.75 foot fence in RF?

Speed allows an OFer to get to the ball. But is it really a defensive skillset? Speed is desired for a WR in football, but route running and catching play just as big a part, IMHO.


Like most stats, you can only really compare players using about 3 years worth of data and UZR (UZR/150) is certainly one of those. Using one isolated year is a bad idea. And certainly, you need to take into account any home park biases. Yes, I have used UZR/150 as a comparison stat, but just recently I have started using either career or last 3-year totals as part of that.


Regress a little.....

Alan Trammell BAVG

1980 = .300
1981 = .258
1982 = .258
1983 = .319
1984 = .314
1985 = .258
1986 = .277
1987 = .343
1988 = .311
1989 = .243

.300 or better 5 of the 10 years, below his career average of .285 the other 5 years. As you can see, a hitting stat like BAVG can vary greatly from year to year. Sure, some players, like Miguel Cabrera are constant, but they are the exception. If you took a snapshot of Trammell during a 3-year period, depending on the 3 years, they probably will be inline with his career average.


Rey Ordonez won 3 GG, despite being a lousy hitter. Of course, he played in NY at the time. Still, he had a very short career due to his lack of hitting. Then there is Adam Everett. In his prime, he was probably the best defensive SS in the last 20 years. Again, lack of hitting is/was his downfall.

Gary Pettis and his 5 GG come to mind.


Alan Trammell won 4x GG. He was not flashy nor would he been considered to have great range. You probably would not seen him on "Web Gems". However, he rarely, if ever, threw the ball away. I do not remember him ever "rushing" a throw and had seen him many times just "put the ball in his back pocket". If today's defensive metrics where available when he played, I would bet it would show he was average to below average defensively. Those that had the pleasure to see him play, day-to-day, would argue differently


Bottom line...Gold Gloves are one award that is hard to define and qualify. Even the latest stat metrics are vulnerable to large biases, so can they really be used?
 
Aybar beat out Peralta. More reason for Verlander to ear hole the little, ugly twerp.
 
And Brandon Inge is an All Star 3B. Robert Fick was an All Star.

Neither award, whether GG or AS is as it once was.


The Gold Glove lost its credibility in 1999 when Palmeiro, despite only playing 28 games at 1B, won.

Since 1983, only Alex Gordon (this year) and Darin Erstad (2000) has won the AL GG primarily as a LFer. 10 of those years, all three OF AL GG went to centerfielders.
 
GG is a joke, the HOF voters should be instructed to not consider GGs when electing someone to the HOF. Consider fielding, but GGs should not be part of that considering they are a joke.
 
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