Lineups

[spockmaster]

now that we have Young and also because Kurt over at BYB put together a post on this today, i figure we might as well discuss lineups again based on the current roster (or who we should really have on the roster at this point).

i know lineups have been done to death, but its still fun to discuss and im bored right now. go go go!


1. Avila - C: His OBP is great but is being wasted at the bottom of the lineup because he is getting stranded all the time.

2. Peralta - SS: He's in a slump right now, but his OBP is also good and he doesnt strike out a lot.

3. Boesch - RF: He seems to hit better here than anywhere else, really. Gets on base a good deal, drives in runs. Good spot for him.

4. Cabrera - 1B: duh

5. Martinez - DH: also duh

6. Young - LF: plays terrible defense, but is good at driving in runs.

7. Wilson Betemit - 3B: same as young, except not as bad on D and not as good at driving in runs.

8. Will Rhymes/Danny Worth - 2B: I honestly dont care which one it is, or if its a platoon. Santiago isnt a full time player, Raburn's D at 2B completely negates his bat, so these are our only 2 real options.

9. Austin Jackson - CF: Great defensively, downright disappointing offensively. He doesnt get on base a ton, doesnt really use his speed when he does, and is garbage with runners on.


Maggs needs to get DFA'd. I love the guy, but his productive playing days are gone. We need to do the hard but right thing and part ways with him. His roster spot can be used for a new second baseman so that we dont have to watch Raburn botch 2 or 3 plays a game any more. Im perfectly fine with him as a 4th/5th OF against LH pitching, which he crushes. His OF defense is barely passable, but not nearly as bad as his IF defense. Dirks can be the other side to that coin, a 4th/5th OF against RH pitching. Kelly can continue to be the backup third baseman, but if he keeps starting close to as much as Betemit, im gonna strangle Leyland.

Alternatively, we could (and probably should) send someone else down so we can bring up a backup catcher until VMart's knee is healed. Avila can obviously handle catching a lot, but its still not good for him to catch this much with no break at all. I dont want it to catch up to him later.

 

[Mitchrapp]

1. Dirks/?
2. Peralta
3. BB
4. Miggy
5. Mart
6. Avila
7. Young/2B
8. Betemit
9. Ajax.

I know I have 4 OF in there but Dirks comes out and add 2B I'd keep Ajax at lead off in those situations and put the 2B at 9! With Dirks in, I'd take out Jackson and 2B goes 9 or Young and 2B goes 8!

 

[deathroh]

1. Jackson
2. Peralta
3. Cabrera
4. Martinez
5. Boesch
6. Young
7. Avila
8. Betemit
9. 2B

 

[beez]

1. Jackson
2. Peralta
3. Cabrera
4. Martinez
5. Boesch
6. Young
7. Avila
8. Betemit
9. 2B

I like this or

1.jackson
2.Peralta
3.Boesch
4.Cabrera
5.Martinez
6.Avila
7.Young
8.Betemit
9.2b

 

[mjsb2]

1. Avila, OBP is king at leadoff, speed is more valuable lower in the order.
2. Boesch
3. Peralta
4. Cabrera
5. V-Mart
6. Betemit
7. Young
8. 2B
9. Jackson

 

[beez]

1. Avila, OBP is king at leadoff, speed is more valuable lower in the order.
2. Boesch
3. Peralta
4. Cabrera
5. V-Mart
6. Betemit
7. Young
8. 2B
9. Jackson

I just dont see Avila having the same success at lead off for whatever reason, Boesch has been bad in the 2 hole and I don't want Peralta hitting 3 along with minimal protection behind Victor. Betemit is swinging a hot stick especially with RISP but I dont know about him in the 6 right now behind cabby n Vmart.

 

[deathroh]

1. Avila, OBP is king at leadoff, speed is more valuable lower in the order......

Why?

 

[spockmaster]

1. Avila, OBP is king at leadoff, speed is more valuable lower in the order......

Why?

speed in front of power hitters is nice but not necessary because the extra base hits and homers get runners home well enough on their own. speed is better in front of hitters with less power who are going to hit more singles.

 

[deathroh]

Holy cow, I just looked up Jackson's post all-star #'s. .262 OBP

I just can't decide who I'd want there instead. Obviously neither can Leyland

 

[beez]

Why?

speed in front of power hitters is nice but not necessary because the extra base hits and homers get runners home well enough on their own. speed is better in front of hitters with less power who are going to hit more singles.

Meh..that logic seems a bit flawed. Its not like Cabrera and VMart are hitting 80 hr's combined this year. I'd rather have quick guys in front of .300 hitters than quick guys in front of .275 hitters.

 

[beez]

Jackson will always be lead off by default just like Grandy...unless someone better with speed comes along or Jacksons average falls even further down the hole next year.

 

[deathroh]

Why?

speed in front of power hitters is nice but not necessary because the extra base hits and homers get runners home well enough on their own. speed is better in front of hitters with less power who are going to hit more singles.

That makes some sense, but Cabrera and Martinez have the most singles on the team.

 

[spockmaster]

speed in front of power hitters is nice but not necessary because the extra base hits and homers get runners home well enough on their own. speed is better in front of hitters with less power who are going to hit more singles.

That makes some sense, but Cabrera and Martinez have the most singles on the team.

they also have the most doubles (with boesch not far behind), and cabrera definitely has the most homers.

besides, like i said before, jackson doesnt even use his speed well except in the outfield. he's not a good baserunner or base stealer.

 

[grandy]

If Jim Leyland was a mod, this thread would be gone.

 

[beez]

Not everybody can score from first on a double. Thats important...not everyone gets to 3rd on a single to cf..thats important. Speed is important in front of guys like Cabrera..its not like hes hitting ball that Vmart could score on everytime.

**Edited***

 

[deathroh]

That makes some sense, but Cabrera and Martinez have the most singles on the team.

they also have the most doubles (with boesch not far behind), and cabrera definitely has the most homers.

besides, like i said before, jackson doesnt even use his speed well except in the outfield. he's not a good baserunner or base stealer.

Right, and those doubles will score a fast runner from first...Avila, not necessarily.

We'll have to agree to disagree, because I won't be convinced it's not best to have speed at the top of your lineup to maximize your chances of scoring runs. Obviously it's also best to have high OBP guys at the top of the lineup, and the balancing act leans towards that stat, but I just don't see the right fit anywhere so I'd be less inclined to take someone out of their comfort zone.

Curious, what makes Jackson not a good base stealer? The only way I can think to quantify that is by sb% and his is damn good (80% this year, 81.1% on his career). Unless you think he has the green light but chooses to turn down obvious opportunities?

 

[spockmaster]

they also have the most doubles (with boesch not far behind), and cabrera definitely has the most homers.

besides, like i said before, jackson doesnt even use his speed well except in the outfield. he's not a good baserunner or base stealer.

Right, and those doubles will score a fast runner from first...Avila, not necessarily.

We'll have to agree to disagree, because I won't be convinced it's not best to have speed at the top of your lineup to maximize your chances of scoring runs. Obviously it's also best to have high OBP guys at the top of the lineup, and the balancing act leans towards that stat, but I just don't see the right fit anywhere so I'd be less inclined to take someone out of their comfort zone.

Curious, what makes Jackson not a good base stealer? The only way I can think to quantify that is by sb% and his is damn good (80% this year, 81.1% on his career). Unless you think he has the green light but chooses to turn down obvious opportunities?

the latter one. he doesnt read pitchers well. he has a good percentage, but doesnt attempt to steal nearly as often as he should (though thats also partially leyland's fault, i think he's allergic to stolen bases).

 

[mjsb2]

Not everybody can score from first on a double. Thats important...not everyone gets to 3rd on a single to cf..thats important. Not that Speed is important in front of guys like Cabrera..its not like hes hitting ball that Vmart could score on everytime.

It's good to have speed everywhere.

But, it is more valuable lower in the order.

At the bottom of the order you are less likely to get an XBH, and you are less likely to string a bunch of hits together.

For those reasons, you rely more on manufacturing runs at the bottom of the order, and speed is more valuable when manufacturing runs.

 

[spockmaster]

Not everybody can score from first on a double. Thats important...not everyone gets to 3rd on a single to cf..thats important. Not that Speed is important in front of guys like Cabrera..its not like hes hitting ball that Vmart could score on everytime.

It's good to have speed everywhere.

But, it is more valuable lower in the order.

At the bottom of the order you are less likely to get an XBH, and you are less likely to string a bunch of hits together.

For those reasons, you rely more on manufacturing runs at the bottom of the order, and speed is more valuable when manufacturing runs.

you explained it better than i did lol

 

[deathroh]

the latter one. he doesnt read pitchers well. he has a good percentage, but doesnt attempt to steal nearly as often as he should (though thats also partially leyland's fault, i think he's allergic to stolen bases).

Yeah, I don't think we can really know either way, but I'm guessing a good chunk is on Leyland, and with good reason too, since - with his speed - he has a good chance of scoring from first with those guys behind him. See how this all comes together