Might History Repeat?

[Sbee]

I don't think OSU needs to be good for the big ten to be good, Maryland could become great, Iowa, whoever, screw OSU. I had someone argue about how the big ten needs Michigan to be great, I disagree, let someone else be great, of course that's the Sparty in me saying that.

The Big 12 is doing just fine without Texas being good, the Pac 12 is fine with USC being down, etc. you don't need a historically good program to do well, you just need good football teams.

 

[UMRules06]

LOL.. The thought that rooting for O$U helps Michigan is flat out wrong.. It hurts us in
recruiting.. If your win you games you will make the Final Four...
Just look at O$U.. They went above TCU who was the better team because of tradition and money..
If we win our games everything will take care of itself... A buckeye fan actually asking for Michigan fan support is pretty funny...O$U probably will beat Oregon as they have never lost to them but rooting for them in my house is not going to happen.....

Don't understand that reasoning at all. They last played in 2010, so basically nobody on either side has ever played each other before. Ohio State went 5-0 against them in the 1960's under Woody, and that's supposed to help them out on Monday how?

 

[lostleader]

I don't think OSU needs to be good for the big ten to be good, Maryland could become great, Iowa, whoever, screw OSU. I had someone argue about how the big ten needs Michigan to be great, I disagree, let someone else be great, of course that's the Sparty in me saying that.

The Big 12 is doing just fine without Texas being good, the Pac 12 is fine with USC being down, etc. you don't need a historically good program to do well, you just need good football teams.

We all know that is a lie. The Big 12 isn't doing well at all, they will be more than likely split in a few year.

You need to have perennial power house programs. OSU has been one, UM used to be one and are at least trying to regain that status. MSU has kind of filled that spot, but this is not a short term position. We have seen PSU, UW, and Iowa step up at times but not over a period of 10-20 years. UM is in a down period and they have little time to fix or they will turn into a UW or even a Purdue. Lucky for UM they have the money to spend to fix the problem. MSU can step up and stay there if they don't do anything stupid, and keep replacing good coaches as they leave. Dantonio is good but he is no, Bowden, Paterno (don't need any smart ass comments) Brown, Tressel, or Carr. MSU has had good coaches over the years and they will depart for other jobs, will the program step up keep good coaches.

Every conference will have a top, middle, and bottom with some rotation. OSU and UM have been the top. Occasionally OSU slips to the middle and UM has been at the bottom (they best fix that or get comfortable). In a conference with the size of the BIG they should have 4 teams that can compete for the National Championship every year. Look at the SEC (even if overrated) they have teams. BIG need more than what they have.

Sadly we need OSU to win the national championship for the conference, beating Alabama was huge. Although people will say Urbie is really a SEC coach and the B1G still sucks. Off my rant, and for the record I will not be pulling for the buckeyes.

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't think OSU needs to be good for the big ten to be good, Maryland could become great, Iowa, whoever, screw OSU. I had someone argue about how the big ten needs Michigan to be great, I disagree, let someone else be great, of course that's the Sparty in me saying that.

The Big 12 is doing just fine without Texas being good, the Pac 12 is fine with USC being down, etc. you don't need a historically good program to do well, you just need good football teams.

I think it's always better if the "brand name programs" are good.

 

[Sbee]

We all know that is a lie. The Big 12 isn't doing well at all, they will be more than likely split in a few year.

You need to have perennial power house programs. OSU has been one, UM used to be one and are at least trying to regain that status. MSU has kind of filled that spot, but this is not a short term position. We have seen PSU, UW, and Iowa step up at times but not over a period of 10-20 years. UM is in a down period and they have little time to fix or they will turn into a UW or even a Purdue. Lucky for UM they have the money to spend to fix the problem. MSU can step up and stay there if they don't do anything stupid, and keep replacing good coaches as they leave. Dantonio is good but he is no, Bowden, Paterno (don't need any smart ass comments) Brown, Tressel, or Carr. MSU has had good coaches over the years and they will depart for other jobs, will the program step up keep good coaches.

Every conference will have a top, middle, and bottom with some rotation. OSU and UM have been the top. Occasionally OSU slips to the middle and UM has been at the bottom (they best fix that or get comfortable). In a conference with the size of the BIG they should have 4 teams that can compete for the National Championship every year. Look at the SEC (even if overrated) they have teams. BIG need more than what they have.

Sadly we need OSU to win the national championship for the conference, beating Alabama was huge. Although people will say Urbie is really a SEC coach and the B1G still sucks. Off my rant, and for the record I will not be pulling for the buckeyes.

a few thoughts on this


OSU is miles ahead of everyone else, it's not even close. the next closest is MSU but it's an uphill climb to get to where they are. Us maintaining success this year was huge, not slipping back much after a dream season.

UM is in more than just a little downturn, they haven't won a big ten title in over 10 years. UM fans should wish that they were wisconsin, not fear becoming them. Wisconsin has been excellent since the late 90's.

I think Dantonio is as good if not better than those other coaches. you said that MSU has had good coaches who departed for other jobs, by other coaches you mean Saban who pretty much sucked at MSU other than his last season.

Money won't matter nearly as much in the future, especially after the new BTN deal is announced (unless we start paying players). Everyone in the conference is going to have their pockets full, there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to facilities. everyone has nice facilities for the most part, it's a conference with a majority of haves and very few have nots. donor dollars won't matter as much after this new TV deal.

I think a conference needs good teams first and foremost, you really need to be top heavy. have a lot of good teams with parity just gives you a bunch of 3 loss teams. I don't think it's of major significance that they are programs that are traditionally good. Oregon is a great example, they were terrible for years but now they're the standard bearer of the Pac 12. I don't think the Pac 12 is weak just because USC is down. I don't get that caught up in the brand name

 

[Gulo Blue]

Although people will say Urbie is really a SEC coach and the B1G still sucks.

Naturally. But they don't think of Saban, or Miles, or any of the other coaches with Big Ten ties, as Big Ten coaches.

 

[thewolverines24]

We do not need OSU to win the national championship for the conference. No one that matters is dogging the Big 10 right now.

 

[Sbee]

We do not need OSU to win the national championship for the conference. No one that matters is dogging the Big 10 right now.

I think that there was a positive to OSU beating bama, there is also a negative as well. OSU beating Oregon would be a negative for Michigan and MSU

 

[thewolverines24]

I think that there was a positive to OSU beating bama, there is also a negative as well. OSU beating Oregon would be a negative for Michigan and MSU

Pretty amazing they beat the unbeatable Alabama. I mean Nick Saban has gone undefeated every year at Bama until they finally lost to OSU. Pretty god damn amazing run he's been on.

That's essentially how Alabama is treated these days.

 

[zyxt9]

We do not need OSU to win the national championship for the conference. No one that matters is dogging the Big 10 right now.

From a recruitment standpoint I can definitely see an advantage, especially in California. How many kids are debating whether to follow Harbaugh to UM? If OSU wins, does that not tilt the scale slightly toward UM? If Oregon wins, they might decide they would prefer to stay closer to home to compete against the best. OSU wins, they decide to follow JH to compete against the best.

I'm pulling for Oregon mind you, I just see a potential advantage for UM in several ways if OSU wins. As stated, them beating Bama already has helped, along with strong bowl season for the entire B1G, so not sure there is as much to benefit in the NC game. Still, national opinion of reporters has tons of impact across the entire nation, and you know they will be hyping up Oregon in a very big way and that will drive recruits to PAC instead of B1G if Oregon wins.

 

[thewolverines24]

How in the world does OSU winning tilt any scale toward UM? That doesn't make any sense. If OSU wins then that means it just gets even easier for them to pull in the best recruits in the country. That affects Michigan far more.

 

[zyxt9]

The SEC dominance ended with OSU beating Bama. Period. That BS will forever remain in the BCS era. This NC game may very well decide which conference is viewed as the best moving forward. From that viewpoint, I'm ok if OSU wins. As a Wolverine it will be painful to endure, but only until UM returns to dominance over OSU and wins multiple NCs. Short term pain, long term pleasure. We will survive if OSU wins, it will not kill us...and has good potential to make us stronger. Still not going to pull for them to win, but I'm definitely at peace if they do.

 

[zyxt9]

How in the world does OSU winning tilt any scale toward UM? That doesn't make any sense. If OSU wins then that means it just gets even easier for them to pull in the best recruits in the country. That affects Michigan far more.

Oh please, Bama never pulled in the #1 and #2 recruits at every position, right? And there are many who are looking at Harbaugh as a coach more likely to provide an NFL future because he was a winner in the NFL and will bring that to UM, so kids who want to compete for the best and against the best will look at UM as the place to go, even over playing for Urban at an NC OSU.

Then it just comes down to execution and beating the Buckeyes next year. If history does repeat itself, UM will likely change that history by Harbaugh doing what Bo did not, win NCs.

 

[zyxt9]

QBs who dream of the NFL are paying attention to how the NFL is once again going back toward the old standby, the pocket passer. If you cannot be a good pocket QB, you will not make the big $$$ in the NFL. Harbaugh gives them that chance. Urban will continue his tradition of QBs who run too much and get injured too often as a result, and do not succeed in the NFL. That will be why UM will win in the long run, the top kids want to play in the NFL and make $$$$$$. Harbaugh will give them that foundation to succeed in the NFL and make that $$$$$$. Those who go to OSU will still make it to the NFL, but will make less $. That's the game right now, and UM is poised to succeed with that formula.

 

[thewolverines24]

This argument has become so idiotic. One game is going to determine the best conference moving forward? Please. The SEC was viewed as so dominant because they won SEVEN national championships in a row. Not because they won the first BCS championship.

We have Harbaugh and Durkin, who was 2012 recruiter of the year, to pull kids to Michigan. Kids are already pumped about both of them. We don't need an OSU national championship to recruit talent. Did Harbaugh need a USC national championship to turn around Stanford? Hell no.

 

[tomdalton22]

QBs who dream of the NFL are paying attention to how the NFL is once again going back toward the old standby, the pocket passer. If you cannot be a good pocket QB, you will not make the big $$$ in the NFL. Harbaugh gives them that chance. Urban will continue his tradition of QBs who run too much and get injured too often as a result, and do not succeed in the NFL. That will be why UM will win in the long run, the top kids want to play in the NFL and make $$$$$$. Harbaugh will give them that foundation to succeed in the NFL and make that $$$$$$. Those who go to OSU will still make it to the NFL, but will make less $. That's the game right now, and UM is poised to succeed with that formula.

UM might get more of the traditional pocket passers to consider them but I don't think that OSU is really recruiting that type of player anyway. They seem to be looking for the athlete that can pass and just plug them into their offense.

 

[Sbee]

OSU winning is very, very good for OSU. It's not good for schools that compete against OSU for recruits. Luckily MSU really doesn't, LJ Scott was the first plan A OSU kid that i remember us taking but that may have a lot to do with Langford leaving and Elliot being a sophomore as much as it does with MD and Urban. We get by on the Ohio kids that are overlooked by OSU like Leveon Bell and Marcus Rush, we might take kids with OSU offers but they are rarely plan A. Michigan is a little different, we usually get about 50% of the top players in Michigan, I don't expect that to change much.

 

[jwlcosu]

Helluva thread, men (and Lady), helluva thread. Go B1G!

 

[byco42]

Anyway ... Schembechler was an unknown ... and Harbaugh was the coveted hire. And the 1969 team was considered "The Best of All Time." And the 69 M team was solid. So not much of a comparison to me.

 

[zyxt9]

Game recognizes Game. Some kids want to compete with the NCs, others want to compete against the NCs. Some kids desire being coached by former NFL coaches who want to beat the best and thereby become the best. Big difference between using that recruiting tool when defining the best to be the conference's best vs the nation's best.

MSM also hypes the NC and their conference far more than the team that loses the NC and its conference. All of those things come into play, and will be even bigger factors with the new playoff system.

Perceptions are huge when recruiting.