MSU future/NBA

[Sbee]

Harris said he hasn't thought about it, which tells us nothing, of course he's thinking about it, he's just not going to say it after the game.

Izzo said that he wants dawson back only if he wants to come back, not if he feels like he has to and it's a disappointment to return to school.

if we lose those two, next year may be finally the one where the recruiting misses start to bite us. I think we're in good position for 2015 but it's a rebuilding year regardless, almost all good programs go through them.

we should still be competitive and a tournament team but this was our last shot at winning it all for a while.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Harris should leave. He's stupid if he doesn't even though he's still a very young sophomore at 19 and wouldn't be 20 until his 1st NBA training camp if he stays another year.

Dawson? I don't know, he should probably stay, but if he gets a late 1st round early 2nd round grade he might go, he has a kid and he's had the NBA bug from the start.

 

[Sbee]

Harris should leave. He's stupid if he doesn't even though he's still a very young sophomore at 19 and wouldn't be 20 until his 1st NBA training camp if he stays another year.

Dawson? I don't know, he should probably stay, but if he gets a late 1st round early 2nd round grade he might go, he has a kid and he's had the NBA bug from the start.

Harris should go unless he just loves playing college basketball, it's much more fun than the NBA, ask draymond or anybody else. i wouldn't blame him at all if he left.

Dawson could make a lot of money overseas if he can't make a roster. lots of good athletes are mopping floors at 26 if they can't develop a jump shot

 

[LuciousGameWinner]

Read an article on mlive about Dawson not being sure about his future. Appling and Harris are replaceable. Harris shot the ball pretty bad this year, give Ellis the amount of shots that Harris gets and he'll average 17 a game too. Trice is solid taking over for Appling. Now I really really hope we don't lose Dawson, he's the one player that gave a damn this whole season and showed some heart. Seeing him dominate virginia and Harvard shows how high his ceiling really is. I really hope we see him back for another year.

 

[MSUMatt28]

Read an article on mlive about Dawson not being sure about his future. Appling and Harris are replaceable. Harris shot the ball pretty bad this year, give Ellis the amount of shots that Harris gets and he'll average 17 a game too. Trice is solid taking over for Appling. Now I really really hope we don't lose Dawson, he's the one player that gave a damn this whole season and showed some heart. Seeing him dominate virginia and Harvard shows how high his ceiling really is. I really hope we see him back for another year.

I like Ellis's potential, but let's not get carried away thinking he'll average 17. Still a starting 3 on the perimeter of Trice, him, and Valentine should be pretty solid. If Costello plays like he did when Payne was out and not the fouling machine he became later on, we should be alright there as well. Kaminski will have some sort of enhanced role and could be a double figure scorer with enough minutes but needs to improve everything else.

Dawson coming back could be the difference between hoping just to make the NCAAs (as maybe an 8-10 seed) and maybe being a top 20-25 team.

 

[Sbee]

it's hard to think too much ahead since we don't know who's coming back but of course Ellis isn't going to average 17. he made some shots mainly because nobody expects him to shoot, Harris was getting a lot of eyes on him on defense.

This might be one of those overachieving teams that we all love

 

[MSUMatt28]

it's hard to think too much ahead since we don't know who's coming back but of course Ellis isn't going to average 17. he made some shots mainly because nobody expects him to shoot, Harris was getting a lot of eyes on him on defense.

This might be one of those overachieving teams that we all love

Yeah, it'll probably be a team much like 2007, though we might still have more talent with this group and more returning experience. Neitzel was only guy on that team that was part of the rotation the previous season and they were helped by Raymar Morgan having a good freshman season and Suton being able to handle a larger role. Obviously some guys will have to step up next season.

 

[Sbee]

Yeah, it'll probably be a team much like 2007, though we might still have more talent with this group and more returning experience. Neitzel was only guy on that team that was part of the rotation the previous season and they were helped by Raymar Morgan having a good freshman season and Suton being able to handle a larger role. Obviously some guys will have to step up next season.

guys will, we have a great coach and he'll surprise us but you need talent like this team had to make a national title run. we could surprise some people and contend in the big ten, but a serious run is a few years away.

of course that would change if Harris and Dawson come back, but I'd say Harris is 90% gone and Dawson about 49% gone

 

[Spartanmack]

This is big part of why I think Izzo blew it big time yesterday and it didn't help that michigan lost to ky. This was his opportunity to demonstrate the value of his recruiting and coaching strategy. Izzo is going home early with what everyone thought was the best team in the country while calipari is taking a bunch of one-and-dones to the final four for the second time in 2 years (3 seasons). It can be argued that Izzo has won one big game since 2009 on a national scale anyway (uva 2014) and has losing records to at least 2 B1G coaches - Beilein and ryan. Not sure about Matta but Matta has more conference and tournament championships in a little more than half the time and a higher overall and conference win %. The case can be made that he's not a big game coach and while we like to think he's the best in the B1G, that's not at all obvious. I'm not saying he's not, but whether you or I believe that or not doesn't matter, it's whether recruits believe it.

 

[MSUMatt28]

This is big part of why I think Izzo blew it big time yesterday and it didn't help that michigan lost to ky. This was his opportunity to demonstrate the value of his recruiting and coaching strategy. Izzo is going home early with what everyone thought was the best team in the country while calipari is taking a bunch of one-and-dones to the final four for the second time in 2 years (3 seasons). It can be argued that Izzo has won one big game since 2009 on a national scale anyway (uva 2014) and has losing records to at least 2 B1G coaches - Beilein and ryan. Not sure about Matta but Matta has more conference and tournament championships in a little more than half the time and a higher overall and conference win %. The case can be made that he's not a big game coach and while we like to think he's the best in the B1G, that's not at all obvious. I'm not saying he's not, but whether you or I believe that or not doesn't matter, it's whether recruits believe it.

Izzo still has a winning record overall vs Beilein though Beilein has the upper hand the past several seasons. With Ryan it's the opposite. Ryan owned him for awhile but Izzo has turned that around the past several seasons. So what you said there was half correct.

Overall I agree though that yesterday was not one of Izzo's finest coaching hours.

 

[Sbee]

This is big part of why I think Izzo blew it big time yesterday and it didn't help that michigan lost to ky. This was his opportunity to demonstrate the value of his recruiting and coaching strategy. Izzo is going home early with what everyone thought was the best team in the country while calipari is taking a bunch of one-and-dones to the final four for the second time in 2 years (3 seasons). It can be argued that Izzo has won one big game since 2009 on a national scale anyway (uva 2014) and has losing records to at least 2 B1G coaches - Beilein and ryan. Not sure about Matta but Matta has more conference and tournament championships in a little more than half the time and a higher overall and conference win %. The case can be made that he's not a big game coach and while we like to think he's the best in the B1G, that's not at all obvious. I'm not saying he's not, but whether you or I believe that or not doesn't matter, it's whether recruits believe it.

People usually overreact in the aftermath of a loss

Msu beat osu in an epic big ten tourney final in 2012

We beat kansas in Georgia in 2012

We beat Kentucky in an early season 1 vs 2 matchup.

Beat potential 1 seeds Wisconsin and michigan to win the btt.

I'm not sure what qualifies as a nationally significant win these days

 

[gotime909]

it's hard to think too much ahead since we don't know who's coming back but of course Ellis isn't going to average 17. he made some shots mainly because nobody expects him to shoot, Harris was getting a lot of eyes on him on defense.

This might be one of those overachieving teams that we all love

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Ellis steps into a major scoring role next year. He was behind Harris, Denzel, Keith and Trice this year in the guard rotation. Most teams don't play 5 guards in their rotation barring foul trouble or injuries. When he was called on he seemed to be able to hang. With likely 2 of those guys being gone next year he'll get major minutes. I wouldn't be shocked if he has a Stauskas like sophomore season. Mayne not to that extreme, but if he averages 15 pts per game I won't be shocked.

 

[Spartanmack]

People usually overreact in the aftermath of a loss

Msu beat osu in an epic big ten tourney final in 2012

We beat kansas in Georgia in 2012

We beat Kentucky in an early season 1 vs 2 matchup.

Beat potential 1 seeds Wisconsin and michigan to win the btt.

I'm not sure what qualifies as a nationally significant win these days

This is hardly an overreaction. It's simply taking off the green shades and looking at the program like an outsider most likely would. It's not even my opinion, I'm just trying to take an objective look at how an outsider would look at the program. But if you want to say a recruit will look at this year and think "Calipari made it to the FF but Izzo's season is more impressive because he went 2 & 3 against teams that almost got 1 seeds" that's just nuts.

And I don't think anyone would say the 2013 Kentucky game was a big game for anything other than the fact that it made a bunch people look dumb for buying 40-0 t-shirts. Now that they're in the Final Four, it's most likely to be written off as "they're not the same team that lost to MSU in November". Beating a "potential" 1 seed is kind of a silly thing to say - only we will remember that and if it was that big of a deal, why weren't we a 3 or even a 2? Getting off topic here but maybe we could have run into CT before they got all that momentum.

 

[MSUMatt28]

For perspective Duke hasn't been to an Elite 8 in 4 years. And 2 of the past 3 years has suffered epic first round upsets. No one is suggesting the Duke is slipping that I've seen.

 

[Sbee]

This is hardly an overreaction. It's simply taking off the green shades and looking at the program like an outsider most likely would. It's not even my opinion, I'm just trying to take an objective look at how an outsider would look at the program. But if you want to say a recruit will look at this year and think "Calipari made it to the FF but Izzo's season is more impressive because he went 2 & 3 against teams that almost got 1 seeds" that's just nuts.

And I don't think anyone would say the 2013 Kentucky game was a big game for anything other than the fact that it made a bunch people look dumb for buying 40-0 t-shirts. Now that they're in the Final Four, it's most likely to be written off as "they're not the same team that lost to MSU in November". Beating a "potential" 1 seed is kind of a silly thing to say - only we will remember that and if it was that big of a deal, why weren't we a 3 or even a 2? Getting off topic here but maybe we could have run into CT before they got all that momentum.

you said that UVA game was the only big game that we've won on a national scale since 2009. I respectfully disagree, I'm sure that attitudes will be different in 30-60 days.

 

[Spartanmack]

you said that UVA game was the only big game that we've won on a national scale since 2009. I respectfully disagree, I'm sure that attitudes will be different in 30-60 days.

I don't think BTT games rank all that highly in national perception - it's gets attention because it's one of the last games on selection Sunday but I think the hype is pretty short-lived. How many ACC and Big 12 tournament games do you remember? Deep tournament runs and big wins in the tournament count way more than conference tourney and regular season games. Maybe the fact that we underachieved will be forgotten in a month or two, but what matters is kids will remember that KY made it to the FF and it will be reinforced when they have multiple first rounders, even lottery picks in a few months time. We can certainly make a case for why the program is great but you can easily see where elite recruits might not see it the same way we do. Winning that game would have gone a long way to make our case, losing it definitely hurts the cause.

 

[Spartanmack]

For perspective Duke hasn't been to an Elite 8 in 4 years. And 2 of the past 3 years has suffered epic first round upsets. No one is suggesting the Duke is slipping that I've seen.

I think people are aware but they are also aware that Duke has multiple NC's including 2010 and tons of guys in the pros - 4 year types and one-and-dones. It could be awhile before Krooziewooski has trouble recruiting blue chips, if he ever does. This is not about MSU slipping though, that's not my point at all. It's about perception of the program among elite recruits. Winning that game and getting to the NC would help lift our profile, laying an egg like that probably sets us back, certainly doesn't help.