North Carolina voter ID laws overturned on appeal

[Michchamp]

I googled Brennan Center for Justice. This is what came up first.

The Brennan Center for Justice at New York University Law School is a nonpartisan, left-leaning law and public policy institute.[2][3][4][5] The Brennan Center advocates for a number of progressive public policy positions, including raising the minimum wage, opposing voter ID laws, and calling for public funding of elections.

I don't think I need to waste my time reading a 50 page report from a biased source.

good googling, sherlock.

maybe google "project veritas" and "James O'Keefe" next if you're really so concerned about bias.

 

[Sbee]

I googled Brennan Center for Justice. This is what came up first.

The Brennan Center for Justice at New York University Law School is a nonpartisan, left-leaning law and public policy institute.[2][3][4][5] The Brennan Center advocates for a number of progressive public policy positions, including raising the minimum wage, opposing voter ID laws, and calling for public funding of elections.

I don't think I need to waste my time reading a 50 page report from a biased source.

Ok, then just read the justice department findings.

 

[Michchamp]

Ok, then just read the justice department findings.

haha, impossible.

 

[Spartanmack]

Wow, you really got me there, smoking gun Mack, you had to be so happy when you saw this. It's one persons anecdote with no facts behind it, so it has to be true.

A Loyola law professor conducted a study of 1 billion votes between 2000-2014 and found a whopping 31 cases of fraud. The justice department under directive from George W Bush found that 0.00000013 percent of ballots cast were fraudulent, there was no evidence that any of these involved in person impersonation. The Brennan Center found that the pursuit of voter fraud legislation disenfranchises legitimate voters without an actual benefit.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The Truth About Voter Fraud.pdf

but hey, you have your video, so it has to be widespread. No ID, no vote! end early voting too, considering those measures lead to the result you want.

so this is simply anecdotal? how naive are you?

oooh, more denial of irrefutable evidence and pivoting with veiled accusations of racism. That's original - where have I seen that before? wow, the justice department found a whopping 31 cases of fraud - hmmm, maybe it's because fraud is really hard to prove. Do you really think that investigating votes ex-post can detect in person voter fraud? How dumb do you have to be to believe that? Pretty fucking stupid, actually. You have high level democrat operatives ADMITTING to orchestrating large scale in person voter fraud, but it's just an anecdote so it doesn't happen. do you only take your head out of the sand long enough to shove it up your ass?

 

[Michchamp]

so this is simply anecdotal? how naive are you?

oooh, more denial of irrefutable evidence and pivoting with veiled accusations of racism. That's original - where have I seen that before? wow, the justice department found a whopping 31 cases of fraud - hmmm, maybe it's because fraud is really hard to prove. Do you really think that investigating votes ex-post can detect in person voter fraud? How dumb do you have to be to believe that? Pretty fucking stupid, actually. You have high level democrat operatives ADMITTING to orchestrating large scale in person voter fraud, but it's just an anecdote so it doesn't happen. do you only take your head out of the sand long enough to shove it up your ass?

read this, dummy: link.

 

[Spartanmack]

read this, dummy: link.

LOL - OK, first, I'll just go ahead and concede to whatever point you want to make about the misogyny and the gun grab videos - I haven't seen them, haven't said a word about them and don't give a shit about them. If you want to buy into the hypocrisy and the false outrage of other libtards like Bill Maher, who pretend that all Democrats treat all women with the utmost respect - especially considering some of the awful, sexist things Bill Maher says about conservative women - so they can pretend to be outraged by Trumps comments, have at it, I don't care. If the Dems want to pretend like Trump's comments are the worst thing ever while embracing endorsements from equally vulgar Sarah Silverman, Amy Schummer and child molester Lenah Dunham and inviting groups like "Cocks not Glocks" to the White House, go ahead, have your cake and eat it too, I don't give a shit. But when Snopes.com refers to actual confessions from high ranking Dem operatives about unrepentantly rigging elections as gish gallops, that's just laughably stupid. I'm not surprised you tried to pass this off as an actual repudiation of a confession - afterall, you are an idiot. We're not talking about "a constellation of allegations and assertions that is virtually impossible to fact check" we're talking about detailed video taped confessions, you moron.

 

[Sbee]

LOL - OK, first, I'll just go ahead and concede to whatever point you want to make about the misogyny and the gun grab videos - I haven't seen them, haven't said a word about them and don't give a shit about them. If you want to buy into the hypocrisy and the false outrage of other libtards like Bill Maher, who pretend that all Democrats treat all women with the utmost respect - especially considering some of the awful, sexist things Bill Maher says about conservative women - so they can pretend to be outraged by Trumps comments, have at it, I don't care. If the Dems want to pretend like Trump's comments are the worst thing ever while embracing endorsements from equally vulgar Sarah Silverman, Amy Schummer and child molester Lenah Dunham and inviting groups like "Cocks not Glocks" to the White House, go ahead, have your cake and eat it too, I don't give a shit. But when Snopes.com refers to actual confessions from high ranking Dem operatives about unrepentantly rigging elections as gish gallops, that's just laughably stupid. I'm not surprised you tried to pass this off as an actual repudiation of a confession - afterall, you are an idiot. We're not talking about "a constellation of allegations and assertions that is virtually impossible to fact check" we're talking about detailed video taped confessions, you moron.

I do understand that you're becoming increasingly unhinged due to the prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency, but are you really going to hold a comedian to the same standard of decorum as a candidate for President of the United States?

 

[Spartanmack]

I do understand that you're becoming increasingly unhinged due to the prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency, but are you really going to hold a comedian to the same standard of decorum as a candidate for President of the United States?

I know you're becoming increasingly stupid in your attempts to cover for your favored candidates but if you read my post, it's pretty clear I'm not holding the comedians to any standard, I'm holding hypocrite politicians and their sycophant defenders (like you) to the same standard they're trying to apply to Trump. If they're not going to renounce such vulgarity and bizarre confessions of child molestation from their friends and going to invite groups called "Cocks not Glocks" to the White House for gun control summits, then please, spare me the false outrage over a crude comment from a private conversation. Are you catching up?

 

[Sbee]

I know you're becoming increasingly stupid in your attempts to cover for your favored candidates but if you read my post, it's pretty clear I'm not holding the comedians to any standard, I'm holding hypocrite politicians and their sycophant defenders (like you) to the same standard they're trying to apply to Trump. If they're not going to renounce such vulgarity and bizarre confessions of child molestation from their friends and going to invite groups called "Cocks not Glocks" to the White House for gun control summits, then please, spare me the false outrage over a crude comment from a private conversation. Are you catching up?

Trump's comments were an admission that he actually did something, as opposed to a comedian making a joke about something, there's a big difference. Also, women are coming forward to say that Trump actually did what he said he did. I think Trump's comments are disgusting but it's lower on my list of reasons why he should never be president, well behind thinking climate change is a hoax, that the Saudis and Japan should have nukes, that we should kill the family of terrorists, that we should blow up a ship if someone give the bird to US servicemen, that women should be punished for abortions, etc. He reminds me of a kid in a classroom who gets asked a question by the teacher but he didn't do the reading the night before, so he just attempts to verbally stall for 60 seconds. He's making up his positions as he goes along, yes, he's an asshole personally but there are plenty of assholes who have been good leaders, but your boy who you rush to defend is not fit to be president on many levels.

 

[Spartanmack]

well, i see that you keep pivoting back to things I said I don't really care about. But since you insist on having this argument, it's only different if you need to pretend to be outraged by Trump while happily touting the endorsement of people who say equally vulgar things, do equally despicable things and brag about them in their autobiographies. Now you have women coming out and saying Trump did the things he talked about doing - well, we have lots of women who came out and said they were sexually assaulted by Bill Clinton and that Hillary attacked, silenced and villified them. If you're not equally furious about the way the Clintons treat women, just shut up about how furious you are about how Trump does because you're a hypocrite.

I'm just going to ignore the rest of your unhinged rant about why Trump shouldn't be President because I also think he shouldn't be President. the big difference is I'm not dumb enough to think Hillary isn't as bad or worse.

 

[byco42]

I'll have some first-hand details on the voting process in NC because I have volunteered to be a voting "official" (or whatever they are called) on Election Day.

 

[Sbee]

well, i see that you keep pivoting back to things I said I don't really care about. But since you insist on having this argument, it's only different if you need to pretend to be outraged by Trump while happily touting the endorsement of people who say equally vulgar things, do equally despicable things and brag about them in their autobiographies. Now you have women coming out and saying Trump did the things he talked about doing - well, we have lots of women who came out and said they were sexually assaulted by Bill Clinton and that Hillary attacked, silenced and villified them. If you're not equally furious about the way the Clintons treat women, just shut up about how furious you are about how Trump does because you're a hypocrite.

I'm just going to ignore the rest of your unhinged rant about why Trump shouldn't be President because I also think he shouldn't be President. the big difference is I'm not dumb enough to think Hillary isn't as bad or worse.

I think I know how this goes, after a long day on wall street lamenting the possibility of Trump losing to Hillary and the fact that Mack may have to pay a higher incremental tax rate on money earned over 450k with some of those taxes possibly going toward free things for poor people, he gets on the train to go home to a much less liberal, diverse, and gay suburb. On his way, he's scrolling through whatever social media site and comes across an article or tweet from Fox, Drudge, or Breitbart that says something about the hypocrisy of liberals having entertainers at the white house who make lewd comments. Somehow, in the conservative bubble, that's equivalent to Trump's comments. Of course this is ridiculous since there's a huge difference between an entertainer saying something off color to entertain a crowd vs someone bragging privately about groping women without their consent. There is no equivalence. There are also women corroborating what Trump said, the equivalence would be if Bill Cosby said privately to someone that he drugs women and has sex with them, then accusers come forward and then he's embraced by the white house.

If you want to bring up Bill Clinton, I feel that his infidelities are indications that he's sleazy in his personal life. Who knows how their marriage was but I feel that if you're going to have a relationship outside of marriage, you should just have the courage and character to end it, which he obviously did not, likely because it would damage their political aspirations.

I wasn't really up in arms about Trumps comments, it was one of the least shocking things I've heard. The guy who talks about penis size during a debate and insinuates that a debate moderator is mestruating because she brought up him calling women pigs and dogs also then says that he touches women inappropriately without their consent? shocking, who could have seen that coming?

The Billy Bush conversation and allegations against Trump of misconduct are just one of dozens of examples of him being an overgrown middle school kid who isn't remotely qualified to be president. Still, you prefer him over Hillary, so keep defending him.

 

[Michchamp]

in each of the cases that recently overturned voter ID laws as unconstitutional, the evidence was OVER-FUCKING-WHELMING that these laws were intended to disenfranchise African American voters. We're talking multiple federal lawsuits in different states, in different federal circuits, before judges appointed by both Republican and Democratic presidents, all of which stood up on appeal finding Voter ID laws unconstitutional, the issue of voter ID fraud almost non-existent, and certainly not widespread, common or even rare. more like exceedingly rare, & almost non-existent.

Byco, if you're interested in the 4th Circuit's ruling that upheld the lower courts opinion finding the NC voter ID law unconstitutional, it's here.

the last paragraph on pg. 10 has the issue here in a nutshell:

"After years of preclearance and expansion of voting access, by 2013 African American registration and turnout rates had finally reached near-parity with white registration and turnout rates. African Americans were poised to act as a major electoral force. But, on the day after the Supreme Court issued Shelby County v. Holder, 133 S. Ct. 2612 (2013), eliminating preclearance obligations, a leader of the party that newly dominated the legislature (and the party that rarely enjoyed African American support) announced an intention to enact what he characterized as an “omnibus” election law. Before enacting that law, the legislature requested data on the use, by race, of a number of voting practices. Upon receipt of the race data, the General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African Americans."

a little background: prior to the case noted above, Shelby County v. Holder, Southern states had to have any voting laws pre-approved by the Federal government because of substantial evidence they were such racist fucks they couldnt be trusted not to pass laws on their own that didnt discriminate against African Americans. In 2013 the 5 Republican justices decided "eh, the South is finally over the Civil War because, well, just because." Almost immediately, southern states and a few others passed voter ID laws that clearly targeted African American voting practices so as to disenfranchise as many of them as they could, short of just openly stating "blacks can't vote."

this is all part of the public record, open and obvious. there's really no way to dispute it, unless, you know, you're okay with openly lying in the face of overwhelming evidence.

or one (not referring to byco) could be like spartanracist and tomdalton, and watch a short, heavily edited video clip made by a known liar and convict James O'Keefe, who Republitards and racists keep believing even though his dishonest editing methods are widely known, & public knowledge.

 

[byco42]

For the record, I oppose voter ID laws.

 

[Michchamp]

For the record, I oppose voter ID laws.

I'm glad to hear that!

 

[Spartanmack]

I think I know how this goes, after a long day on wall street lamenting the possibility of Trump losing to Hillary and the fact that Mack may have to pay a higher incremental tax rate on money earned over 450k with some of those taxes possibly going toward free things for poor people, he gets on the train to go home to a much less liberal, diverse, and gay suburb. On his way, he's scrolling through whatever social media site and comes across an article or tweet from Fox, Drudge, or Breitbart that says something about the hypocrisy of liberals having entertainers at the white house who make lewd comments. Somehow, in the conservative bubble, that's equivalent to Trump's comments. Of course this is ridiculous since there's a huge difference between an entertainer saying something off color to entertain a crowd vs someone bragging privately about groping women without their consent. There is no equivalence. There are also women corroborating what Trump said, the equivalence would be if Bill Cosby said privately to someone that he drugs women and has sex with them, then accusers come forward and then he's embraced by the white house.

If you want to bring up Bill Clinton, I feel that his infidelities are indications that he's sleazy in his personal life. Who knows how their marriage was but I feel that if you're going to have a relationship outside of marriage, you should just have the courage and character to end it, which he obviously did not, likely because it would damage their political aspirations.

I wasn't really up in arms about Trumps comments, it was one of the least shocking things I've heard. The guy who talks about penis size during a debate and insinuates that a debate moderator is mestruating because she brought up him calling women pigs and dogs also then says that he touches women inappropriately without their consent? shocking, who could have seen that coming?

The Billy Bush conversation and allegations against Trump of misconduct are just one of dozens of examples of him being an overgrown middle school kid who isn't remotely qualified to be president. Still, you prefer him over Hillary, so keep defending him.

LOL, tell us all how non-white, liberal and gay your neighborhood is - Bloomfield Hills, right? Is that diversity where you learned to be so anti-Israel? How about your country club. Did you become a liberal listening to your caddy tell you how hard it is to be black in America? Have you ever lived in a mixed race community? Please, tell us all how your personal experience has shaped your world view - how it's not just from reading the Huffington Post, NY Times, Politico and Vox. And I don't live in a conservative bubble, I have lots of liberal friends and there are way more Clinton signs in my neighbor's lawns than there are Trump signs. And I guarantee you my life experience has been leaps and bounds more diverse than yours.

I'm not just bringing up Bill Clinton - I'm bringing up the role Hillary played in silencing, attacking and villifying his accusers. And what about Hillary's courage and character to end the relationship? No criticism for that? She clearly stayed with him to further her own selfish interests - that's real feminism in action! Anyone who accuses Trump of being sexist and abusive to women in defense of Hillary is a hypocrite. Period.

And again, there is not only not a huge difference, there isn't even a small difference. You people are all hypocrites, you in particular. And please - tell me where I have once defended Trump. See, I make a lot of the same accusations of Trump that you do. Saying Hillary is just as bad or worse isn't remotely the same thing as defending Trump. but of course, you so desperately need to believe that I do, otherwise, this unhinged rant and personal attack is completely and totally baseless. You are one pathetic loser.

 

[Michchamp]

.... And I guarantee you my life experience has been leaps and bounds more diverse than yours.

...

one time in Chicago you played basketball with a bunch of black guys, right?

 

[Spartanmack]

in each of the cases that recently overturned voter ID laws as unconstitutional, the evidence was OVER-FUCKING-WHELMING that these laws were intended to disenfranchise African American voters. We're talking multiple federal lawsuits in different states, in different federal circuits, before judges appointed by both Republican and Democratic presidents, all of which stood up on appeal finding Voter ID laws unconstitutional, the issue of voter ID fraud almost non-existent, and certainly not widespread, common or even rare. more like exceedingly rare, & almost non-existent.

Byco, if you're interested in the 4th Circuit's ruling that upheld the lower courts opinion finding the NC voter ID law unconstitutional, it's here.

the last paragraph on pg. 10 has the issue here in a nutshell:

"After years of preclearance and expansion of voting access, by 2013 African American registration and turnout rates had finally reached near-parity with white registration and turnout rates. African Americans were poised to act as a major electoral force. But, on the day after the Supreme Court issued Shelby County v. Holder, 133 S. Ct. 2612 (2013), eliminating preclearance obligations, a leader of the party that newly dominated the legislature (and the party that rarely enjoyed African American support) announced an intention to enact what he characterized as an “omnibus” election law. Before enacting that law, the legislature requested data on the use, by race, of a number of voting practices. Upon receipt of the race data, the General Assembly enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African Americans."

a little background: prior to the case noted above, Shelby County v. Holder, Southern states had to have any voting laws pre-approved by the Federal government because of substantial evidence they were such racist fucks they couldnt be trusted not to pass laws on their own that didnt discriminate against African Americans. In 2013 the 5 Republican justices decided "eh, the South is finally over the Civil War because, well, just because." Almost immediately, southern states and a few others passed voter ID laws that clearly targeted African American voting practices so as to disenfranchise as many of them as they could, short of just openly stating "blacks can't vote."

this is all part of the public record, open and obvious. there's really no way to dispute it, unless, you know, you're okay with openly lying in the face of overwhelming evidence.

or one (not referring to byco) could be like spartanracist and tomdalton, and watch a short, heavily edited video clip made by a known liar and convict James O'Keefe, who Republitards and racists keep believing even though his dishonest editing methods are widely known, & public knowledge.

ooh, more unfounded accusations of racism, followed by a bunch of nonsense about voter ID laws being racist - so refreshing, so original - from our resident second rate race baiting racist ambulance chaser. I love how you always throw in that "heavily edited" whenever there is indisputable evidence you don't like, as if that somehow discredits a video taped, detailed confession of dems committing grotesque, en masse voter fraud - like he didn't actually admit to committing fraud, it was the editing!!!! I remember your team pulled the same nonsense when trying to discredit the planned parenthood videos - sure it appeared like they said openly that they were torturing fetuses to preserve the tissue so they could sell it for profit, but that was all editing. Did they dub that in there? LOLOLOL

 

[Spartanmack]

one time in Chicago you played basketball with a bunch of black guys, right?

Zing - you're good at this.

 

[Michchamp]

Zing - you're good at this.

you're not.

maybe you can team up with James O'Kweef to doctor some board posts to prove me wrong though.