"not always" pathetic windbag gives child climate skeptic an ipad

[Michchamp]

So, if your only answer for unexplained events is that science just hasn't caught up - there is no burden on me. The burden is on you, but you don't have to prove anything to me.

LOL, that is preposterous.

 

[turok]

Here is the spectrum of effective things you can do to solve a problem:

nuclear strike > dynamite > stun grenade > club > pepper spray > yell loudly > play tiddlywinks > pray

Taser?

Rubber Bullets?

Water cannon?

 

[KAWDUP]

What have I done to solve it? Well, I donate quite a bit of money each month, even sponsor a few kids throughout the world. I've organized neighborhood food drives as well for my local community. Of course, I'm not all powerful, so I can't do everything myself. Do you know anyone who is all powerful? Besides, I'm sorry if asking God to feed a few kids is such a difficult thing. Maybe, he'd rather answer your prayer about helping you get through your tough week.

edit: i'm sorry. that's not how prayer works. You ask him for strength and guidance through it...not to actually get you through it. Sorry, my bad.

Good deal - you do quite a bit. I have a similar story, but I have neices and nephews that are doing much more than me. They are actually on missions in places like Costa Rica etc., but I was actually saying it figuratively. The question of why there is evil in the world, is one that has puzzled philosphers for centuries. About all I can offer in this short space and this sort of forum is that it is part and parcel of the whole free will gig.

I apologize also. I am not trying to sell anyone on prayer, but I have seen what it can do, so I believe I am speaking from experience. Champ will always look at the unexplainable and ask what don't we know about the physical laws of nature that will absolutely explain the phenomenon to keep himself sleeping at night. I look at it and say why not. His faith in science and atheism is actually as strong or stronger than many Christian faithful I have known. He needs it for his world to make sense, and that is fine - but one thing is for sure - that belief has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence or your own IQ. I'm sorry it just doesn't.

 

[KAWDUP]

LOL, that is preposterous.

. . . and you maybe expected a sample of proof? Now that is what is really preposterous.

 

[Michchamp]

That's like the BAC's who argue the only evidence you need that the world is only 6000 years old is the Bible.

I seriously hate to think what the library in Wilmington, Indiana is like if it offered that kind of evidence, conclusive enough for a learned lad of 13.

maybe the library is "generously" funded by these guys?

in which case, it's not the kid's fault.

Bleeding heart liberal school teachers and muppets on Sesame Street tell him he should read books. It's not his fault he listened to them.

 

[KAWDUP]

Doesn't matter who has the burden of proof. The problem is that people believe in a book that condones slavery, killing non-virgin brides, killing newborn babies, unborn babies, entire cities, and forcing women to marry their rapist.

Any chance that the things we "condone" today, we won't condone in the future? People believe in many things about the bible, and of course you can choose to believe, that that is what God meant and wants, but I would counter with the fact that there is way more good as it pertains to God and Jesus than the things you fear above especially in the New Testament.

 

[Michchamp]

...

The power of prayer would obviously eliminate the need for any further formal education, books, (other than waterproofed Bibles) currency, and medicines/medical-dental treatment. Those who would inevitably pass away could be weighted down with rocks obtained from the ocean floor, then sunk.

...
BTW you obviously have never seen the power of prayer at work. Don't give a crap about anything else in your post, but that part is just rubbish.

. . . and you maybe expected a sample of proof? Now that is what is really preposterous.

Whoa, let's back it up a minute before we go down this idiotic path...

You responded to his (and let's be plain here...) OBVIOUSLY SATIRIC post with that nonsense about the power of prayer. Then claimed you "got it" and were baiting me. whatever.

So if you "got it" then you don't seriously believe prayer is a substitute for "formal education, books, (other than waterproofed Bibles) currency, and medicines/medical-dental treatment" as he jokingly suggested. That's funny, and okay, neither do we.

if you didn't, well, then, you actually do.

 

[Monster]

Any chance that the things we "condone" today, we won't condone in the future? People believe in many things about the bible, and of course you can choose to believe, that that is what God meant and wants, but I would counter with the fact that there is way more good as it pertains to God and Jesus than the things you fear above especially in the New Testament.

You can't pick and choose from the bible. You just can't. You can't say that times change, so the bible has to as well. It doesn't work that way.

And i know you don't mean any offense. I don't either. Religion is a tough thing to discuss. We're still cool outside of this thread.

 

[KAWDUP]

Whoa, let's back it up a minute before we go down this idiotic path...

You responded to his (and let's be plain here...) OBVIOUSLY SATIRIC post with that nonsense about the power of prayer. Then claimed you "got it" and were baiting me. whatever.

So if you "got it" then you don't seriously believe prayer is a substitute for "formal education, books, (other than waterproofed Bibles) currency, and medicines/medical-dental treatment" as he jokingly suggested. That's funny, and okay, neither do we.

if you didn't, well, then, you actually do.

How in the world did you get that from anything I posted? Prayer is not a substitute for anything, It is what it is. Funny how it all has to fit neatly into your little compartments.

Either I believe in the stupidty as you state it, or I am a liar, and really believe just like you. You are nuts as usual.

As far as the bait - do you need someone to pull that hook out of your mouth?? I rest my case there.

Keep charging like a bull - holding on to your atheism with all your might. You might even be more faithful than me.

 

[KAWDUP]

You can't pick and choose from the bible. You just can't. You can't say that times change, so the bible has to as well. It doesn't work that way.

And i know you don't mean any offense. I don't either. Religion is a tough thing to discuss. We're still cool outside of this thread.

I don't take offense at anything posted here. I chimed in not to attack turok - I know he was just being sarcastic - despite what champ believes. I don't think I attacked - I just posted on something I disagree with.

Not sure why you equate "picking and choosing" to what I do? I believe the Old Testament is a bit more story filled, and tend to trust a bit more what I read in the NT. I think the most important part of the OT is Gods covenant with Abraham. I don't think that not believing in the literal word of the bible is blasphemy. Do I believe Abraham really existed. Yes - but do I believe he lived 900+ years? Maybe not so much - I think that numbers in the bible tend to be extremely symbolic, and have many meanings outside of how they are used.

. . . not sure why that has to mean that I can't possibly believe in Christianlty.

 

[Michchamp]

How in the world did you get that from anything I posted? Prayer is not a substitute for anything, It is what it is. ...

But that's not what you said. maybe go back and edit your post then. That's where I got it from.

Keep charging like a bull - holding on to your atheism with all your might. You might even be more faithful than me.

Keep calling atheism a religion. While this hasn't made it into one yet or officially changed the meaning of any of the definitions in the OED, you only have to do it 549,622 more times before it sticks.

 

[Michchamp]

Taser?

Rubber Bullets?

Water cannon?

those all fit under stun grenade.

 

[KAWDUP]

Whoa, let's back it up a minute before we go down this idiotic path...

You responded to his (and let's be plain here...) OBVIOUSLY SATIRIC post with that nonsense about the power of prayer. Then claimed you "got it" and were baiting me. whatever.

So if you "got it" then you don't seriously believe prayer is a substitute for "formal education, books, (other than waterproofed Bibles) currency, and medicines/medical-dental treatment" as he jokingly suggested. That's funny, and okay, neither do we.

if you didn't, well, then, you actually do.

Oh and something else. It really doesn't matter what I offer - it really doesn't - just that there are things that occur all the time that are unexplainable by science - you believe it was we don't know enough science yet. I think you know what I choose to believe.

If it makes you feel any better to try and tear apart my example - here ya go. Have at it. It was a close friend of mine that all of the doctor's had said she had metastacized cancer. Many months of trying did not produce much more than a a small amount of shrinkage in the initial tumor. It was clear on the X-Ray's. The priest that was called in for last rites asked that we pray for a miracle in x person's name (immaterial who it was). That relative, given mere days to live, lived another 5 years. The U of M trained doctors (at least one of them) couldn't explain it. Can't help it - I believe that was a miracle. You can believe what you want of course. You sort of have to go through it before expecting anyone to buy into the specific example, but like I tried to infer - it doesn't matter what my exact proof is - you, according to your faith, will try to explain it away. My story is not the only one out there, which I'm sure proves to you that we just don't know enough to explain it yet. Didn't say you have to believe in miracles - in fact you can even believe less in the power of prayer, I wasn't telling you how to believe - I saw a statement about prayer and disagree with what was said about it. That is all.

 

[KAWDUP]

But that's not what you said. maybe go back and edit your post then. That's where I got it from.



Keep calling atheism a religion. While this hasn't made it into one yet or officially changed the meaning of any of the definitions in the OED, you only have to do it 549,622 more times before it sticks.

LOL - I hate to get all semantical on ya, because I know how you love that, but having faith in something that you can't explain (which you can't), is not a religion. Maybe I could say that a half a million more times. My guess is it still won't sink in.

 

[KAWDUP]

But that's not what you said. maybe go back and edit your post then. That's where I got it from.



Keep calling atheism a religion. While this hasn't made it into one yet or officially changed the meaning of any of the definitions in the OED, you only have to do it 549,622 more times before it sticks.

This is what I posted:
"Extremism going the other way for sure. Yeah that will solve the problem.

BTW you obviously have never seen the power of prayer at work. Don't give a crap about anything else in your post, but that part is just rubbish. "

So now tell me again, how you can even come close to inferring, that prayer is a substitute for every damn thing you mentioned in your daitribe, or that I come even close to believing that malarky?

 

[Michchamp]

science can explain your example.

just because a diagnosis was wrong doesn't mean that a miracle occurred. medical testing is far from an exact science.

"You have days to live" is an estimate, not a fact.

if a miracle really did occur, the logical course of action would be to do away with modern medicine and have that priest train more priests to pray like he did to cure peoples' cancer (or at least put it in remission for 5 years), since obviously that is a more effective way to handle it.

But of course, you wouldn't advocate that, as it would be totally insane... and I'm sure there were other instances where people prayed for someone and they died. Maybe they even died sooner than the doctors predicted. Presumably that has happened before too. How would you explain that? Bad praying? Ineffective praying? Demons? The Devil?

Guess u could just say God works in mysterious ways don't he? DUUUUURRRR...

 

[Michchamp]

...

So now tell me again, how you can even come close to inferring, that prayer is a substitute for every damn thing you mentioned in your daitribe, or that I come even close to believing that malarky?

it's very simple:

Years ago, I learned to read and understand the English language.

Now... FAST FORWARD to 2013!

I read his post, then I read yours, and I understood each to mean what they said. Maybe you screwed up and didn't mean what you typed?

 

[KAWDUP]

science can explain your example.

just because a diagnosis was wrong doesn't mean that a miracle occurred. medical testing is far from an exact science.

"You have days to live" is an estimate, not a fact.

if a miracle really did occur, the logical course of action would be to do away with modern medicine and have that priest train more priests to pray like he did to cure peoples' cancer (or at least put it in remission for 5 years), since obviously that is a more effective way to handle it.

But of course, you wouldn't advocate that, as it would be totally insane... and I'm sure there were other instances where people prayed for someone and they died. Maybe they even died sooner than the doctors predicted. Presumably that has happened before too. How would you explain that? Bad praying? Ineffective praying? Demons? The Devil?

Guess u could just say God works in mysterious ways don't he? DUUUUURRRR...

Stupidty - I won't dignify that with a response other than to say so what? DUURRRRR to you too.

The diagnosis was not only gotten wrong by several doctors then, but it also fooled today's X-Ray's machines. Keep swinging, I'm sure your faith will get back into the discussion shortly.

 

[KAWDUP]

it's very simple:

Years ago, I learned to read and understand the English language.

Now... FAST FORWARD to 2013!

I read his post, then I read yours, and I understood each to mean what they said. Maybe you screwed up and didn't mean what you typed?

. . . more likely is that in the typical Champ way of arguing - if the person didn't make an argument against what you believe, put words in their mouth and then tear apart what you believe might be their answer to that. You are pretty predictable, as I am sure I am. Makes me wonder why you still take the bait after all this time.

C'mon Champ admit it, you know deep down inside, you still believe in a higher power.

LOL . . . or not.

 

[turok]

My wife fervently believes that prayer can sometimes work "miracles" as we recently received a modest windfall in the form of a disability adjustment check from my former employer, that she claims had resulted from "her" prayers. I am of course very sceptical of that, but since it improved her mood for some time, I went along with her insistence that it had been a spiritual gift, although neither of us had regularly attended any Mass/church services for looong before that check arrived in the mail, or since then. We had resumed attending Mass regularly for about a year before we were married, and about 6 months afterward, so that we could become married in a "sacramentally-approved" manner at our local Roman Catholic parish in a church service.

We aren't and have not really been particularly pious or religious, despite the both of us having been deeply indoctrinated into it from early childhood into our teens, mostly by attending parochial school through "middle-school" or 9th grade, then attending public HS.