"not always" pathetic windbag gives child climate skeptic an ipad

[Thumb]

You can't pick and choose from the bible. You just can't.

But they do. They always have, they take this "Word of God" and then decide which rules were set ins tone, and which were the grey area when god was stoned one day and just rambling off random shit.

I miss that show.

 

[Michchamp]

kind of annoyed me that god & prayer & church get credit only when things go right...

when things go wrong "god works in mysterious ways"

(no I didn't verify the quote)

 

[Thumb]

kind of annoyed me that god & prayer & church get credit only when things go right...

when things go wrong "god works in mysterious ways"

(no I didn't verify the quote)

How do you know somebody didn't pray for Hurricane Katrina?

And I'm sure the 9/11 guys prayed lots of people would die, and they prayed to the same god, so.....who's side is he really on???

 

[KAWDUP]

My wife fervently believes that prayer can sometimes work "miracles" as we recently received a modest windfall in the form of a disability adjustment check from my former employer, that she claims had resulted from "her" prayers. I am of course very sceptical of that, but since it improved her mood for some time, I went along with her insistence that it had been a spiritual gift, although neither of us had regularly attended any Mass/church services for looong before that check arrived in the mail, or since then. We had resumed attending Mass regularly for about a year before we were married, and about 6 months afterward, so that we could become married in a "sacramentally-approved" manner at our local Roman Catholic parish in a church service.

We aren't and have not really been particularly pious or religious, despite the both of us having been deeply indoctrinated into it from early childhood into our teens, mostly by attending parochial school through "middle-school" or 9th grade, then attending public HS.

We call that "recovering Catholic" in the current vernacular. Not sure if you were expecting another response, as I think that is fine what your wife believes.

I do want to mention one thing. I guess I feel a small need to answer why the prayers of the most pious are not necessarily answered first. Why is this prayer "answered" and that prayer "ignored"?

Although, neither of those may actually describe what is happening. Asking for things for someone else, or ourselves for that matter as if there is this "wish granter" entity somewhere (people normally think of the location "up there") just waiting to answer this prayer or that prayer may also not be what is happening.

I find it hard to fault anyone who does that and believes that, but it may not happen just because we view it that way. I think our free will, and God's will play into it. Prayer (in an obvious over-simplification) is basically the definition of our communion with God.

I apologize - I am done getting existential on this topic. I think prayer can be very powerful - I continue to believe that even though that windbag (which was the orginial topic) is not very Christ-like.

 

[zyxt9]

Much depends on what one prays for as to whether or not it will happen.

Praying for an object to miraculously appear or disappear is a ridiculous argument to use, obviously it will not happen.

However, there have been countless stories from battlefields where guys were in a situation where they prayed. No, not saying they prayed to survive and somehow miraculously that happened. I'm referring more to guys who were stone cold afraid and turned to prayer to summon the courage to make it through a situation.

Now, could they have performed their acts of bravery without the power of prayer, possibly. However, they believed in using prayer to summon up the courage to do something that others were too scared to do. So yes, prayer CAN be a powerful thing, when considered in the proper context. I'm not saying prayer saved those individuals, I'm saying it gave them the courage to act when others were not able.

Many atheists have prayed on the field of battle.

 

[redandguilty]

Come on guys. Quit posting all this tempting material. I have too much science to do today.

 

[Thumb]

Much depends on what one prays for as to whether or not it will happen.

Praying for an object to miraculously appear or disappear is a ridiculous argument to use, obviously it will not happen.

However, there have been countless stories from battlefields where guys were in a situation where they prayed. No, not saying they prayed to survive and somehow miraculously that happened. I'm referring more to guys who were stone cold afraid and turned to prayer to summon the courage to make it through a situation.

Now, could they have performed their acts of bravery without the power of prayer, possibly. However, they believed in using prayer to summon up the courage to do something that others were too scared to do. So yes, prayer CAN be a powerful thing, when considered in the proper context. I'm not saying prayer saved those individuals, I'm saying it gave them the courage to act when others were not able.

Many atheists have prayed on the field of battle.

That's an assumption.

 

[Michchamp]

How do you know somebody didn't pray for Hurricane Katrina?

And I'm sure the 9/11 guys prayed lots of people would die, and they prayed to the same god, so.....who's side is he really on???

Both part of God's plan.

It's like this: God actually hates the human race, and wants to completely kill us off, but hasn't been able to thus far, because we're a persistent bunch, and he's still getting all his ducks in a row.

Now, in the course of these efforts, sometimes he gets tired and nods off, and a few slip through the cracks; or if you catch him at a good moment, he might toss you a bone. these are the times when you see a cancer patient live a few extra years, a hiker survive a bolt of lightning, or a field goal kicker nail it through the uprights to win a game.

 

[Michchamp]

That's an assumption.

one that these guys might have an issue with.

 

[Michchamp]

Come on guys. Quit posting all this tempting material. I have too much science to do today.

what's your position on climate change, Bill Nye?

If you can find something to "disprove it" at yr local library, Rush might send you an ipad.

 

[KAWDUP]

There is an old cliche that goes like this: "there are no atheists in foxholes". Making it as an absolute statement of fact is a bit absurd. Certainly there are some atheists who, when faced with their own death, "prayed", but pretty sure that not all do. That is like a Champ argument. "Every Republican should be sent to the moon". I don't read zyxt9 as saying all do, but certainly there are some accounts of atheists doing all kinds of things, including praying, when faced with imminent death. They could just be hoping on the off chance (1 in infinity if you ask Champ), that if there is a God, he will give them the strength to survive.

Here is a question for ya. Should God answer their prayer?

The answer given by my daughter is ". . . of course she should."

 

[KAWDUP]

Both part of God's plan.

It's like this: God actually hates the human race, and wants to completely kill us off, but hasn't been able to thus far, because we're a persistent bunch, and he's still getting all his ducks in a row.

Now, in the course of these efforts, sometimes he gets tired and nods off, and a few slip through the cracks; or if you catch him at a good moment, he might toss you a bone. these are the times when you see a cancer patient live a few extra years, a hiker survive a bolt of lightning, or a field goal kicker nail it through the uprights to win a game.

Thanks for the off-handed slap. You know not what you speak of. Shame on you.

 

[zyxt9]

one that these guys might have an issue with.

I didn't claim all. There have been individuals who have said they never prayed until they were in the middle of a deadly battle. Did they remain atheists afterward? Probably. I didn't say they became followers of any religion.

Have you ever hoped for something? Hope is a form of prayer. There is zero reason to say "I hope" for anything just like there is zero reason to "pray" for anything since they are essentially the same. Placing hope on something is not praying in the sense of saying a prayer to a deity, but it is praying to the universal patterns and timelines that something will happen to make things better.

I love how you atheists totally avoided the other point of my post. Nice job. I explained the how the power of prayer is not zero, yet you failed to blast me on that. So I guess my point was legit and there is "some" positives that can come from the power of prayer. As I stated, I'm not claiming this power of prayer to be anything more than a person finding an inner strength, but the fact they used prayer to find that inner strength is still a very important element that should not be overlooked or simply dismissed.

 

[zyxt9]

what's your position on climate change, Bill Nye?

If you can find something to "disprove it" at yr local library, Rush might send you an ipad.

You cannot prove the manmade causes are the entire problem though either.

Come on champ, you always put the pressure upon others, let's see you do something for a change. PROVE climate change is SOLELY a result of man. You can't do it because it cannot be proven.

 

[zyxt9]

That's an assumption.

Not.

Way to fucking cherry pick from my post by the way.

 

[redandguilty]

what's your position on climate change, Bill Nye?

If you can find something to "disprove it" at yr local library, Rush might send you an ipad.

Good thing I don't like apple then.

But what's my position?

I think the earth is getting warmer. I think human activity is responsible for somewhere between 10-90% of the warming over the past 100 years (I would guess 2/3rds of it is us, but I really have zero confidence between 25-80%.) I think that human activity being responsible for 1% of it is an impressive feat. I think that human activity has caused a measurable change to the chemical composition of the atmosphere and the oceans and that is astounding. I think a carbon cap and trade system is a horrible idea, but I would be open to a carbon tax, especially if the revenue was used to fund my work...I mean alternative energy research and subsidies and further climate studies.

 

[Thumb]

Not.

Way to fucking cherry pick from my post by the way.

Was there a census taken of the many "field of battle" participants to see if their were even any atheists at all? And if so were any questioned about if their non-belief was shaken at any point?

If not, you're making an assumption, more likely than not, it's somewhat true, but it's still only an assumption.

And sorry to cherry pick, but that was all I felt like responding to. :nod:

 

[Thumb]

And just to add, because I didn't speak on this yet, I also think prayer has some positive outcome. But only the feeling the individual gets from doing it, purely psychological.

If it makes people happy, and feel better about themselves/the world...pray away. But the idea of a part-time deity who answers some prayers, and not others in no specific way or order.....yeah......sorry, but no.

 

[Michchamp]

this presumes God is right-handed:

 

[Michchamp]

You cannot prove the manmade causes are the entire problem though either.

Come on champ, you always put the pressure upon others, let's see you do something for a change. PROVE climate change is SOLELY a result of man. You can't do it because it cannot be proven.

I wasn't asking you, since I don't really value your opinion on the topic. but regardless, whether climate change is SOLELY the result of man's activities isn't the issue. And it could be proven within some measure of certainty. it's called SCIENCE.

Good thing I don't like apple then.

But what's my position?

I think the earth is getting warmer. I think human activity is responsible for somewhere between 10-90% of the warming over the past 100 years (I would guess 2/3rds of it is us, but I really have zero confidence between 25-80%.) I think that human activity being responsible for 1% of it is an impressive feat. I think that human activity has caused a measurable change to the chemical composition of the atmosphere and the oceans and that is astounding. I think a carbon cap and trade system is a horrible idea, but I would be open to a carbon tax, especially if the revenue was used to fund my work...I mean alternative energy research and subsidies and further climate studies.

10-90 or 25-80... that's a pretty big gap.

but yeah, I'm more or less convinced. even if I was on the fence (as I'm not a scientist), the fact that the oil & coal industries and their talking heads in the media have thrown so much money at disproving it and confusing the issues would push me over to one side.