Nothing on Governor Snyder and Flint?

[grandy]

Bill Schuette is a real piece of work as well... I'm sure his "investigation" opened long after the children of Flint suffered debilitating lead poisoning and 10 people are dead from Legionnaires disease will sort this mess out.

Wait, is he actually taking a break from fighting gay marriage and small-time potheads?

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm skeptical of the idea that the governor was involved with decisions about Flint water. But involved in the cover up? Seem possible.

 

[Michchamp]

Your kidding right? I'm not wasting my time reading it due to the source. ...

you should read it, just for the comic relief. Apparently "The City of Flint" made the decision to use the Flint River as a water source. The whole city. all residents contributed to the decision. not Snyder, and not his EM

I see a lot of passive voice used in the press releases and spin coming from Snyder's camp. They were all just sitting on their hands expressing concern while "decisions were made."

Who made these decisions? The City of Flint!

 

[Michchamp]

I'm skeptical of the idea that the governor was involved with decisions about Flint water. But involved in the cover up? Seem possible.

yes. see the paragraph on authority and accountability in my prior post.

 

[Michchamp]

Wait, is he actually taking a break from fighting gay marriage and small-time potheads?

How does Michigan keep electing fuckheads like him?

One can only hope this serves as a wake up call to Michigan voters to pay attention to every office you're voting for. The AG should've been involved a lot earlier. I don't know if any laws were broken, but a thorough investigation once complaints started coming in couldn't hurt.

 

[tomdalton22]

you should read it, just for the comic relief. Apparently "The City of Flint" made the decision to use the Flint River as a water source. The whole city. all residents contributed to the decision. not Snyder, and not his EM

I see a lot of passive voice used in the press releases and spin coming from Snyder's camp. They were all just sitting on their hands expressing concern while "decisions were made."

Who made these decisions? The City of Flint!

I have read in many places that it was city council who voted in favor of terminating the use of water from Detroit.

 

[Michchamp]

I have read in many places that it was city council who voted in favor of terminating the use of water from Detroit.

I don't think that was the issue; several different people/entities approved of that. it was a long term decision though to build a direct link to Lake Huron for water for Flint & the surrounding area. in the meantime, the crucial decision was: where does Flint get its water from until the link is operational? SOMEONE decided the Flint River - long known to be highly polluted - would be the right choice.

A lot of sources are trying to obfuscate who that someone was.

to Tom & Spartannazi: "obfuscate" is a verb that means to render obscure, unclear or unintelligible.

 

[tomdalton22]

so the elected officials of the city of Flint decide that they want a cheaper water source. They decide to terminate the relationship with Detroit ending the supply of good water for cheaper water that won't be available for a few years. They do this before really knowing what they were going to do in the meantime. Sounds like the governor really fucked this up!

 

[Michchamp]

so the elected officials of the city of Flint decide that they want a cheaper water source. They decide to terminate the relationship with Detroit ending the supply of good water for cheaper water that won't be available for a few years. They do this before really knowing what they were going to do in the meantime. Sounds like the governor really fucked this up!

you seem to be forgetting about the whole "emergency manager" situation and gov Snyder's involvement in it.

 

[Spartanmack]

LOL, yes it is cherry picking. You look at the mountain of evidence here: Snyder appointed the doofus emergency manager; the EM made the decision to use the Flint River instead of continuing to buy water from Detroit while the eventual direct link with Lake Huron water was made.

On top of that, at least for oh not less than ALL OF 2015, Snyder's office was aware of the problem and did NOTHING.

I think someone also needs to go to the Michigan offices of the health departments that did the testing that showed the water was clean and fit for human consumption and clean house. their methodology was clearly insufficient, if not outright fraud

you understand how "authority" and "accountability" works, right? the boss can't duck responsibility for a problem by claiming he delegated it to some low level factotem that he appointed. Snyder can't duck responsibility by releasing an email showing that his office "expressed concern" at some point.

Bill Schuette is a real piece of work as well... I'm sure his "investigation" opened long after the children of Flint suffered debilitating lead poisoning and 10 people are dead from Legionnaires disease will sort this mess out.

LOL, there is actually no evidence that the Emergency Manager made the decision to use Flint River water. According to him, that decision was made before he was appointed Emergency Manager. If you look at Wikipedia you'll see there is actually a gap of more than a year from August 2012 when EM Democrat Michael Brown left that position to September 2013, when Darnell Earley, also a Democrat was appointed. The City Council vote to approve the KWA project was in March of 2013. No one has provided any information about the decision to switch from DWSA to Flint River but according to Earley, that decision was made BEFORE he was appointed in the fall of 2013.

There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest Earley made the decision and you actually have the elected Mayor of Flint (a Democrat) saying there was no pressure from the Governor's office for either KWA or the switch to Flint River Water.

You know how "blame shifting" and "scapegoating" work right? Of course you do, you're an expert at it. The City Council and angry hateful partisan hacks like you can't pin the City Council's bad decisions on people who weren't even in office when those decisions were made.

I haven't read anything about how the problem was handled after it was discovered and I'm not making any arguments to blame or defend anyone's actions from that point on. I've only looked into the accusations you and others have levied here about how this is ENTIRELY the fault of the "Republitard" Governor because his minion made the decision unilaterally to switch to Flint River water. And after reading a few pieces including an article in the Detroit News (a decidedly liberal rag), it's pretty clear this problem wasn't created by the EM or the Governor's office. It's just more smoke and mirrors, bitter conservative bashing bull shit.

 

[tomdalton22]

you seem to be forgetting about the whole "emergency manager" situation and gov Snyder's involvement in it.

no, I'm not. But you seem to forget the reason they are in this mess to begin with. The city government screwed up. Not just with the decision to stop buying good water before having a new source but by nearly bankrupting the city of Flint in the first place.

I was reading an article today and the current mayor of Flint said "said such lead contamination would never have been permitted had Flint been a rich suburb". No shit lady...the rich suburb wouldn't disconnect a good water source to save a few bucks!

Meanwhile, President Obama, who met with Ms. Weaver on Tuesday and declined to visit Flint while attending the annual car show in Detroit. I'll bet if he were up for re-election he would be visiting flint!

 

[Spartanmack]

you should read it, just for the comic relief. Apparently "The City of Flint" made the decision to use the Flint River as a water source. The whole city. all residents contributed to the decision. not Snyder, and not his EM

I see a lot of passive voice used in the press releases and spin coming from Snyder's camp. They were all just sitting on their hands expressing concern while "decisions were made."

Who made these decisions? The City of Flint!

That's your smoking gun? So your suspicion that this is all smoke and mirrors, denial and cover up is due to phrasing. He refers to the Mayor and the City Council, the elected officials of Flint that represent the citizens of the city of Flint as "The City of Flint" and that's evidence of a nefarious cover up? Are you really a lawyer? You seem more like a bad MSNBC personality. I picture you coming off a little more masculine than Chris Hayes but not quite as masculine as Rachel Maddow and even dumber than both of them.

How many city council members are out pounding the table that they were railroaded into the decision by the Governor's office and the EM even though there was no EM in place at the time the decision was made? How many of them can cite an email, text, letter or some other documentation to back it up?

 

[Spartanmack]

I don't think that was the issue; several different people/entities approved of that. it was a long term decision though to build a direct link to Lake Huron for water for Flint & the surrounding area. in the meantime, the crucial decision was: where does Flint get its water from until the link is operational? SOMEONE decided the Flint River - long known to be highly polluted - would be the right choice.

A lot of sources are trying to obfuscate who that someone was.

to Tom & Spartannazi: "obfuscate" is a verb that means to render obscure, unclear or unintelligible.

Spartannazi - that's rich coming from the boards biggest (probably only) anti-semite. You are the classic internet tough guy. This about sums you up...

 

[Gulo Blue]

This politically oriented arguing over this topic is what this board is for, but I hope we get a legit criminal investigation to figure out whether or not people need to go to jail for this. That kind of thinking comes from the degree of the damage done and a feeling that someone must be at fault more than evidence of a law being broken...and I know that's dangerous...but wow, it's difficult to be dispassionate about this.

 

[Spartanmack]

you seem to be forgetting about the whole "emergency manager" situation and gov Snyder's involvement in it.

You seem to be missing this simple fact...

...there is actually a gap of more than a year from August 2012 when EM Democrat Michael Brown left that position to September 2013, when Darnell Earley, also a Democrat was appointed. The City Council vote to approve the KWA project was in March of 2013. No one has provided any information about the decision to switch from DWSA to Flint River but according to Earley, that decision was made BEFORE he was appointed in the fall of 2013.

And for your benefit Turd, since you probably don't have a very good grasp of the number line, since Michael Brown left the EM position in 2012 and the KWA wasn't approved until 2013, it's impossible for him to have made the decision for the interim switch to Flint River water. Of course, nobody expects you to come out and bash the Dems for fucking this whole thing up, or for the general mess the city of Flint or any other Dem controlled urban hell hole - we'll just look forward to making an ass of you again the next time you try to pin all of the world's problems on conservatives.

 

[Gulo Blue]

There's lots of blame to go around here too.

The initial decision to switch to the Flint River
The decision to not use the proper treatment chemicals
The decision to downplay the threat once people were asking questions
The decision to discredit the whistle blower.

Those don't all have to be the fault of the same people.

 

[Spartanmack]

This politically oriented arguing over this topic is what this board is for, but I hope we get a legit criminal investigation to figure out whether or not people need to go to jail for this. That kind of thinking comes from the degree of the damage done and a feeling that someone must be at fault more than evidence of a law being broken...and I know that's dangerous...but wow, it's difficult to be dispassionate about this.

For the record, I'm not here to pin blame on anyone - Democrat or Republican - for this unfortunate mess. I was just a bit skeptical that all the facts weren't being presented or even considered in yet another anti-conservative tirade by everyone's favorite bigoted asshole. Not surprisingly, based on a rather simple investigation into the timeline, my suspicions were confirmed.

 

[Gulo Blue]

For the record, I'm not here to pin blame on anyone - Democrat or Republican - for this unfortunate mess. I was just a bit skeptical that all the facts weren't being presented or even considered in yet another anti-conservative tirade by everyone's favorite bigoted asshole. Not surprisingly, based on a rather simple investigation into the timeline, my suspicions were confirmed.

I get it. I want this to clearly be someone's fault (because you don't want this to just be a thing that happens.) So, of course, I want to know who's fault. But with stakes this high, I'll be patient.

Never did like Snyder anyway. The whole government swooping in with an emergency manager seemed like a very non-conservative, undemocratic, Big Government thing to do to me.

 

[Michchamp]

You seem to be missing this simple fact...



And for your benefit Turd, since you probably don't have a very good grasp of the number line, since Michael Brown left the EM position in 2012 and the KWA wasn't approved until 2013, it's impossible for him to have made the decision for the interim switch to Flint River water. Of course, nobody expects you to come out and bash the Dems for fucking this whole thing up, or for the general mess the city of Flint or any other Dem controlled urban hell hole - we'll just look forward to making an ass of you again the next time you try to pin all of the world's problems on conservatives.

all red herrings. no matter how many times you shout and cry and vaginate about them.

the facts: Flint was under an EM - who held all the power - appointed by Snyder. The Flint city council held no power; they weren't even a runner stamp. if there wasnt an EM in office when the actual switch was done is immaterial; his predecessor made the decision then.

and Snyder's subsequent actions? just insult to injury here.

 

[Spartanmack]

all red herrings. no matter how many times you shout and cry and vaginate about them.

the facts: Flint was under an EM - who held all the power - appointed by Snyder. The Flint city council held no power; they weren't even a runner stamp. if there wasnt an EM in office when the actual switch was done is immaterial; his predecessor made the decision then.

and Snyder's subsequent actions? just insult to injury here.

Wrong. Again. Those are not facts. Flint was not under an EM for over a year so there was no EM around to even be involved in the decision. The decision happened sometime between March and September 2013. After Brown left office and before Earley was appointed. He was probably around when it was implemented as I assume that takes longer than 6 months to transition to a different water supply. But you're not blaming the EM for not reversing a bad decision by the City Council, you're trying to pin the decision on him so you can then blame the Republican Snyder, by extension, for everything. The Mayor, who is a Democrat even said the Governor's office was not involved in the decision. The Flint City Council clearly had power and in March 2013, when there was no Emergency Manager in office, they voted 7-1 for the KWA plan. Is it your contention that was just a symbolic vote? Calling them red herrings so you can dismiss them offhand despite obvious facts to the contrary, doesn't make them red herrings.