Ohio* to run spread offense

[hungry]

Funny, I'm sure you think they are student athletes too. Winning is all that matters to the football coach, boosters, and AD. You could be the best coach at getting guys to graduate but if you lose more than you win you will be fired.

This topic has been argued this way by fans of other teams for a long time so its pointless. Your opinion is that Tressel was a terrible guy who did anything to win football games. That's fine, he got caught lying to the NCAA about not knowing of rules violations so if you want to believe that you have leverage. Mo Clarette was an idiot and said things about Tressel after he was kicked out of school so that usually is another reason why Tressel was a cheater. I'm ok with that, of course you would have loved Tressel to be the coach of UM during those years with all that success and if you wouldn't that is a lie.

But to think that stuff like this doesn't go on at every school is pretty funny to me. You don't think that Denard gets special treatment?

I would never want a scumbag like Tressell coaching at MIchigan, whether he won 10 championships or zero.

 

[redandguilty]

Funny, I'm sure you think they are student athletes too. Winning is all that matters to the football coach, boosters, and AD. You could be the best coach at getting guys to graduate but if you lose more than you win you will be fired.

This topic has been argued this way by fans of other teams for a long time so its pointless. Your opinion is that Tressel was a terrible guy who did anything to win football games. That's fine, he got caught lying to the NCAA about not knowing of rules violations so if you want to believe that you have leverage. Mo Clarette was an idiot and said things about Tressel after he was kicked out of school so that usually is another reason why Tressel was a cheater. I'm ok with that, of course you would have loved Tressel to be the coach of UM during those years with all that success and if you wouldn't that is a lie.

But to think that stuff like this doesn't go on at every school is pretty funny to me. You don't think that Denard gets special treatment?

No. I wouldn't have wanted Tressel. ...and while I understand that every school has problems and crosses lines, I think it's like taking about crime in cities. All cities have crime, but not the same level of crime. I believe Michigan is dramatically better than Ohio when it comes to the degree to which our athletes are students, how well we follow the spirit of the rules, and how much our fans care about these sorts of things relative to Ohio fans. We're the good guys. I'm glad we're the good guys.

 

[redandguilty]

...and amajjd, you probably weren't on the ESPN Michigan boards back when Rich Rod was hired, but back then, several people thought we'd win a lot of games if we got Les Miles to be our coach. I was against it for the same reason I'd be against Tressel.

 

[amajjd]

No. I wouldn't have wanted Tressel. ...and while I understand that every school has problems and crosses lines, I think it's like taking about crime in cities. All cities have crime, but not the same level of crime. I believe Michigan is dramatically better than Ohio when it comes to the degree to which our athletes are students, how well we follow the spirit of the rules, and how much our fans care about these sorts of things relative to Ohio fans. We're the good guys. I'm glad we're the good guys.

That is a very good analogy

I will disagree with you about the level of problems between the schools but it doesn't matter. The same shit goes on at every school and it just comes down to if you get caught and how much attention it will get. I went to UToledo and they had a gambling / point shaving incident, that wasn never talked about on ESPN and they didn't even get sanctions. If that happened at OSU ESPN would have had 5 beat writers on campus for months.

I have met football players from smaller schools and the recruiting process that went on at a D2 school was shocking I can only imagine what happens at a big school with 25,000+ students and big money boosters.

But since UM didn't get caught doing anything you can have the were better than you mind set, I can live with that.

I still don't believe you wouldn't want a guy at UM who went 94-22 (59-14 in B1G).

 

[wheels002]

That is a very good analogy

I will disagree with you about the level of problems between the schools but it doesn't matter. The same shit goes on at every school and it just comes down to if you get caught and how much attention it will get. I went to UToledo and they had a gambling / point shaving incident, that wasn never talked about on ESPN and they didn't even get sanctions. If that happened at OSU ESPN would have had 5 beat writers on campus for months.

I have met football players from smaller schools and the recruiting process that went on at a D2 school was shocking I can only imagine what happens at a big school with 25,000+ students and big money boosters.

But since UM didn't get caught doing anything you can have the were better than you mind set, I can live with that.

I still don't believe you wouldn't want a guy at UM who went 94-22 (59-14 in B1G).

Its like OSU and the car issues. Everyone knows there was something fishy with it all but they covered there tracks and didnt get caught. I do believe that yes some things happen here but I highly doubt that its as bad at UM as in some schools especially in the SEC. Usually the schools have ways of covering up unless someone talks and spills the beans on how its done. I think OSU would have been busted sooner had they been investigated when Clarrett was trying to spill everything.

 

[b311j]

That is a very good analogy

I will disagree with you about the level of problems between the schools but it doesn't matter. The same shit goes on at every school and it just comes down to if you get caught and how much attention it will get. I went to UToledo and they had a gambling / point shaving incident, that wasn never talked about on ESPN and they didn't even get sanctions. If that happened at OSU ESPN would have had 5 beat writers on campus for months.

I have met football players from smaller schools and the recruiting process that went on at a D2 school was shocking I can only imagine what happens at a big school with 25,000+ students and big money boosters.

But since UM didn't get caught doing anything you can have the were better than you mind set, I can live with that.

I still don't believe you wouldn't want a guy at UM who went 94-22 (59-14 in B1G).

Serious question. Do really believe that Lloyd Carr and Brady Hoke use/used the same recruiting/player retention techniques as Tressel?

 

[Jessica]

Remember when Herb Meijer faced a certain big 10 team in Florida with his defense that he concentrated so hard on? Which team was that? How did that turn out?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFIAoIPSKek

I absolutely love that one-handed catch by Arrington. I still remember it like it was yesterday.

 

[redandguilty]

That is a very good analogy

I will disagree with you about the level of problems between the schools but it doesn't matter. The same shit goes on at every school and it just comes down to if you get caught and how much attention it will get. I went to UToledo and they had a gambling / point shaving incident, that wasn never talked about on ESPN and they didn't even get sanctions. If that happened at OSU ESPN would have had 5 beat writers on campus for months.

I have met football players from smaller schools and the recruiting process that went on at a D2 school was shocking I can only imagine what happens at a big school with 25,000+ students and big money boosters.

But since UM didn't get caught doing anything you can have the were better than you mind set, I can live with that.

I still don't believe you wouldn't want a guy at UM who went 94-22 (59-14 in B1G).

There have been, time and time again, candid remarks by Buckeyes saying that that kind of stuff happens all the time and candid remarks by Wolverines saying that it's different at Michigan.

 

[amajjd]

Serious question. Do really believe that Lloyd Carr and Brady Hoke use/used the same recruiting/player retention techniques as Tressel?

I guess I don't understand what you looking for here
Do I think that Tressel went after low character guys? He went after a few guys that had some questions. Mo Clarret was the worst of the guys. I mean Pryor was the #1 recruit in the country so it wasn't like he wasn't being asked to go to a lot of big college's. Its not like he had player after player getting arrested for beating women, fighting, DUI, drugs. I mean there were guys getting in trouble but how do you know a kid is going to get a DUI or something like that.

I think (and have always thought) that Carr's biggest downfall was he stopped getting top guys from Ohio. He stopped going to the place that got Michigan a lot of very good players. Some of that was Tress keeping guys in state but it just seemed that he wasn't able to get as many guys over the boarder. Hoke is from Ohio and knows the talent that he can pluck from the state and if he does what Masterson and him did this year he will be fine.
I liked that hire from the begining, I thought he was a great coach for Ball St. I also like that he is from Ohio, so that means he knows what he is doing

 

[amajjd]

There have been, time and time again, candid remarks by Buckeyes saying that that kind of stuff happens all the time and candid remarks by Wolverines saying that it's different at Michigan.

Do you really think that it doesn't happen at Michigan? If so great, who am I to say your wrong. I have no first hand knowledge, I didn't give a player money or something.

I just have a tough time believing that 18 - 22 year old kids don't make dumb mistakes and do stupid things. That is the one part that usually gets lost in this whole mess. If I had reporters looking into what I did in those years of college I would have been the bad seed. I'm sure most would have been also.

 

[redandguilty]

Do you really think that it doesn't happen at Michigan? If so great, who am I to say your wrong. I have no first hand knowledge, I didn't give a player money or something.

I just have a tough time believing that 18 - 22 year old kids don't make dumb mistakes and do stupid things. That is the one part that usually gets lost in this whole mess. If I had reporters looking into what I did in those years of college I would have been the bad seed. I'm sure most would have been also.

I think there's a big difference between "has it ever happened? well, probably here and there, yes, but most players reject that sort of thing" and "it's a part of the culture and most players think of it as the norm".

 

[allshouldbleedblue]

That is a very good analogy

I will disagree with you about the level of problems between the schools but it doesn't matter. The same shit goes on at every school and it just comes down to if you get caught and how much attention it will get. I went to UToledo and they had a gambling / point shaving incident, that wasn never talked about on ESPN and they didn't even get sanctions. If that happened at OSU ESPN would have had 5 beat writers on campus for months.

I have met football players from smaller schools and the recruiting process that went on at a D2 school was shocking I can only imagine what happens at a big school with 25,000+ students and big money boosters.

But since UM didn't get caught doing anything you can have the were better than you mind set, I can live with that.

I still don't believe you wouldn't want a guy at UM who went 94-22 (59-14 in B1G).

the points shaving scandal at Toledo was talked about on ESPN and there was a huge article on ESPN about it also. You should get your facts straight.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4146980

also i hope you are not referring to Toledo as a d-2 school.

 

[hungry]

That is a very good analogy

I will disagree with you about the level of problems between the schools but it doesn't matter. The same shit goes on at every school and it just comes down to if you get caught and how much attention it will get. I went to UToledo and they had a gambling / point shaving incident, that wasn never talked about on ESPN and they didn't even get sanctions. If that happened at OSU ESPN would have had 5 beat writers on campus for months.

I have met football players from smaller schools and the recruiting process that went on at a D2 school was shocking I can only imagine what happens at a big school with 25,000+ students and big money boosters.

But since UM didn't get caught doing anything you can have the were better than you mind set, I can live with that.

I still don't believe you wouldn't want a guy at UM who went 94-22 (59-14 in B1G).

Did he go 94-22 after the vacated games?

Maybe they can get away with that stuff easier at D2 schools that no one cares about. Did you ever think?

 

[hungry]

I guess I don't understand what you looking for here
Do I think that Tressel went after low character guys? He went after a few guys that had some questions. Mo Clarret was the worst of the guys. I mean Pryor was the #1 recruit in the country so it wasn't like he wasn't being asked to go to a lot of big college's. Its not like he had player after player getting arrested for beating women, fighting, DUI, drugs. I mean there were guys getting in trouble but how do you know a kid is going to get a DUI or something like that.

I think (and have always thought) that Carr's biggest downfall was he stopped getting top guys from Ohio. He stopped going to the place that got Michigan a lot of very good players. Some of that was Tress keeping guys in state but it just seemed that he wasn't able to get as many guys over the boarder. Hoke is from Ohio and knows the talent that he can pluck from the state and if he does what Masterson and him did this year he will be fine.
I liked that hire from the begining, I thought he was a great coach for Ball St. I also like that he is from Ohio, so that means he knows what he is doing

Why are you so hard on Mo Clarett? He is the guy that won Ohio* a championship, not Tressell

 

[amajjd]

All, my point was that at a smaller school bad things happen and there is no real press. Yes I do know UT is a D1 school, it has played your team once in football.

Hungry those numbers are after the removal of the '10 season victories but keeping the 1 loss.

As for why I'm hard on Clarett? If he isn't a knuckle head the Bucks could have made a run the following year too. Plus he was just wasted talent. If that guy had half a brain he would be a millionaire right now from playing in the NFL.

 

[hungry]

All, my point was that at a smaller school bad things happen and there is no real press. Yes I do know UT is a D1 school, it has played your team once in football.

Hungry those numbers are after the removal of the '10 season victories but keeping the 1 loss.

As for why I'm hard on Clarett? If he isn't a knuckle head the Bucks could have made a run the following year too. Plus he was just wasted talent. If that guy had half a brain he would be a millionaire right now from playing in the NFL.

ANd my point is that they might not do it as much at a school like Michigan, because there are more people watching. Who cares if they use recruiting incentives and what-not at Northern Michigan? Northern MIchigan needs stuff like that just to get athletes to go there to play football and no one is watching. Neither of which is true for a University like Michigan.

Mo Clarett was the ultimate Buckeye. He won you guys a national title. You guys should be praising Clarett and damning Tressell, not the other way around. After all, Mo Clarett didn't do anything wrong...right?

 

[amajjd]

ANd my point is that they might not do it as much at a school like Michigan, because there are more people watching. Who cares if they use recruiting incentives and what-not at Northern Michigan? Northern MIchigan needs stuff like that just to get athletes to go there to play football and no one is watching. Neither of which is true for a University like Michigan.

Mo Clarett was the ultimate Buckeye. He won you guys a national title. You guys should be praising Clarett and damning Tressell, not the other way around. After all, Mo Clarett didn't do anything wrong...right?

1st point - I get your stance here, this doesn't happen at UM. Ok

As for Clarett he was the ultimate Buckeye? I don't really know how to answer this. He was a great player his freshman year, he played a major role in wining the NC. He was a knuckle head, he would be the guy that would take benifits I'm sure. He wouldn't care about NCAA rules I'm sure. He did had several issues and he did get in some trouble after his freshman year. The car thing, cheating or extra help from school, the fake police report, the benifits. I thought all those things were looked into by the NCAA, nothing was ever proven to be wrong (I could be wrong about this). But if they did look into it maybe all that was found to be after he was suspended from school and was not on the football team.

 

[hungry]

1st point - I get your stance here, this doesn't happen at UM. Ok

As for Clarett he was the ultimate Buckeye? I don't really know how to answer this. He was a great player his freshman year, he played a major role in wining the NC. He was a knuckle head, he would be the guy that would take benifits I'm sure. He wouldn't care about NCAA rules I'm sure. He did had several issues and he did get in some trouble after his freshman year. The car thing, cheating or extra help from school, the fake police report, the benifits. I thought all those things were looked into by the NCAA, nothing was ever proven to be wrong (I could be wrong about this). But if they did look into it maybe all that was found to be after he was suspended from school and was not on the football team.

As for the rest of this conversation we could go back and forth till the football season started and both would think the other was wrong. I do think that when Tress got released (now retired) it was the right move. He broke a huge NCAA rule and was diciplined correctly. I don't think that he should have stayed at the school, but I also don't hate the man either. A background on that is because I have a son on the autism spectrum and he received a scholarship from a fund that Tressel donated thousands of dollars and time to. I will admit that we recieved this right before all this came out so I have a different view of him as a person for selfish reasons. If I'm an idiot for that I can live with it.

It does happen at Michigan. It doesn't happen nearly as much and the fans don't condone it like they do at Ohio*. The Ohio* administration, players, and fans all have the same attitde, its ok to cheat to win. You can't say the same about UofM.

Right, Clarett never did anything wrong, so why do Ohio* fans hate him? Sure, he was a knucklehead, but so were a lot of people that went to and/or played at Ohio*. He was cleared of all wrongdoing, right? He made plays in that NC game that, if they had not happened, Ohio* surely would've lost.

Like I said, you're like a lot of the prisoners I see at work. They say that them and me are exactly alike, because I admit to occasionally going 5 over the speed limit. They have killed people, raped people, and robbed people, yet they see our crimes as identical. "you're no different than me, you break the law, too."

Let's not shine a turd. Tress got fired and he got a show cause penalty, one of the worst things a coach can receive from the NCAA. He has millions of dollars and because he gave a small portion of those ill-gotten millions to some charity that gave you money, you love him? Wow! Bought and paid for!

 

[amajjd]

Good job, you got me. You just compaired me to a murderer and rapist because of what I think about a football team.

thanks

 

[hungry]

Good job, you got me. You just compaired me to a murderer and rapist because of what I think about a football team.

Please delete the bottom part of my last post, that was a personal thing that I shouldn't have typed.

Want some tissue, baby?